A few more asking prices from the "golden years" | Page 4 | FerrariChat

A few more asking prices from the "golden years"

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by bannishg, Sep 9, 2012.

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  1. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,612
    NZ
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    Timothy Russell
    And dont we see a certain Mr. Niles mentioned in many of the ad's, ever feel like you should write a book about all of the Ferraris you have owned, driven and sold ???????? I would be a starter
     
  2. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
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    Greg
    #77 bannishg, Sep 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Thank you John & Mr. Niles for your contributions! I'm happy to see that more people are willing to share what they have. In case you were wondering, Bill Rudd's ad for 250TR #0756 was from Autoweek Feb. 21, 1976. I'm glad you were also able to obtain the price figure as well, Mr. Niles. It's frustrating when when the seller withholds the price when reading vintage ads. "Over $40,000" sounds about right for the period, of course, by '77, I'm sure they were at the $60,000 mark.

    Also, More:

    (I also apologize in advance if I re-post an ad that I have posted previously, It's hard to keep track of the 300+ I have already posted!)
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  3. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
    Honorary

    Sep 7, 2004
    2,493
    West Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwin K. Niles
    Regarding the ones I posted, the 250TR from Rudd was not really for sale; he and his partner were establishing the value, as the partner (yes, the same guy who had the yellow LM) was buying Bill out. The ATS was the first of two that I had owned at one time, and was alleged to be the prototype (S/N 1001). I ended up buying 0131 with the Warren Olson V-8 conversion---what a rattly piece of junk! I wish I had copies of all my old ads; the L.A.Times was the publication of choice before the FML came along. And of course R&T, but their lead time was months, and I usually had a bank loan coming due! If anyone has a set of FML, I was on the front cover in '74 or '75 with an ad for about a half-dozen cars-sorta funny as I recall.
     
  4. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,826
    ....and now the prices went up!

    Thanks for posting all this.
     
  5. Onebugatti

    Onebugatti Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Apr 2, 2008
    288
    Centre Europe
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    Christopher
    #85 Onebugatti, Sep 19, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  6. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 7, 2004
    16,798
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Vasco
    Yeah but by then Chris you definetly had to play close to $4K :)
     
  7. wbaeumer

    wbaeumer F1 Veteran
    Consultant

    Mar 4, 2005
    8,826
    ...did you also got the Karman Ghia...:)?
     
  8. joehayes

    joehayes Rookie

    Sep 9, 2010
    41
    It is so easy to look at these prices and feel really depressed. However, to put all these prices in perspective-In 1974, I had just turned 24 and started working at Continental Bank in Chicago. I was fresh out of MBA school and my salary was $13,400 per year. This equated to a net check of $426 twice a month. The Bank was paying Harvard and Wharton grads, with 4 years of experience, an extra $3000 per year. Even then I was a real car guy, having had all sorts of used muscle cars in high school and college that were being worked on every weekend by me. I grew up in northern Florida and went to college in Tallahassee. Other than seeing pictures in mags of exotic foreign cars I don't think I ever saw a Ferrari or Maserati in person before moving to Chicago. The big thing in the south was Nascar and drag racing. If I had seen any type of used Ferrari on a lot it would have been passed over for the nearest hopped up Mustang for $1500.

    When I moved to Chicago I actually was in Joe Marchetti's shop by the Como Inn in the mid 1970's, but on my salary which was considered a lot at the time, the thought of dropping $6000 or $9000 on a SWB that was hard to keep in tune and could not be worked on by myself was just an absurd thought. At the time you could buy 3 unit greystone apartment buildings next to Wrigley Field for $15,000.

    So, I guess hats off to those wealthy and astute collectors who recognized those future prizes for what they were. Just rehashing my financial situation at the time makes me feel better knowing that I couldn't possibly have afforded any of the ads in this thread.
     
  9. Onebugatti

    Onebugatti Formula Junior
    BANNED

    Apr 2, 2008
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    Christopher
    I keep thinking that a Karman Ghia would solve allot of headaches, attract younger women, and let me deal with normal mechanics that brag about their vegetable gardens and fly fishing.........

    It's not easy being known for paying to much and always buying cars that need paint and carpets because I like old paint and old carpets.
     
  10. ggjjr

    ggjjr Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2003
    870
    Detroit
    Full Name:
    George
    Joe,
    thanks for the hard numbers. By '74 the only way a fairly successful, and wealthy, person could afford these cars is if they had started trading in them five or six years earlier, and traded up, or over for one. This is very consistent with today. I remember being at a show in the early 2000's with my father and telling him that the 275's were the next hot thing that would be going up in price. At the time $180k was the going rate and I probably could have pulled one off, but it just didn't feel prudent at the time. Very much like your story, and I'm sure just like a lot of folks on this board. I don't see anyone that I wouldn't consider very well off with a 275 today, just like ten years ago.

    George
     
  11. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
    Honorary

    Sep 7, 2004
    2,493
    West Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwin K. Niles
    Remember, also, that in the sixties (when I was most active) very few people even knew of Ferrari, and the body of enthusiasts was very small, indeed. The "standard" price for a used F-car was around $5,000, which was a crazy price for a used car, unless you were part of the body of F-nuts. They were NOT easy to sell. I had a 400SuperAmerica that took two years and three paint jobs to sell! Race cars, now favored in the market, were at a disadvantage, as they were usually clapped out and no longer capable of winning, and noisy and difficult to drive. The times, they are a-changin'.
     
  12. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #93 bannishg, Sep 23, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 23, 2012
    Hey can anybody else here help me shed some light on the history of vintage car COLLECTING (not the cars themselves)?

    I have noticed that prior to the late 50s, they were not investment pieces at all. I have read countless stories of SS Mercedes, J or SJ Duesenbergs, supercharged Alfas, Bugattis etc. selling for under $2000, and often even under $1000. Only a handful of optimistic collectors would have the nerve to offer a Duesey at $3,000 in R&T in 1955, and they would be a tough sell. In the late 30s and especially during the war years, there was the aura of supporting the troops, conserving and carpooling. There were no use for the big classics, and one could save a Duesey from the scrapyard by paying it's owner $400. Then there was the 1945-52 early post-war period, when desperate and cash-strapped Europeans were selling their impractical pre-war racers for peanuts. In December 1950, Briggs Cunningham famously paid the Bugatti family a small amount of cash and a few refrigerators, all valuing $3000 US in total, for their two Royales and some goodies. And to add, Cunningham threw in some of the appliances out of goodwill. As most know one of those Royales would become the world record Domino's Pizza car.

    The only car that seemed to stay in the $3k-$4k range in the late 40s thru the mid 50s was the 8C-2900 Alfa, because it was eligible and very potent for the Mille-Miglia. A collector car was never, ever over $4,000 until the tail end of the 50s. A new top of the line Bentley Continental was $9,700 in 1952, a Jaguar C-type was $5,500, a Ferrari 212 was anywhere between $7,500 and $16,000 depending on the client's specifications and the most expensive custom coach Rolls-Royce limos were $25,000.

    I know Ferraris were barely known outside the racing circles during those days, but is there anybody here who can testify on the "true" golden age of car collecting, that is, when the market itself barely existed?
     
  13. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    1,810
    The first major American collector was D.Cameron Peck, owner of Producer's Dairy in Chicago, IL. Peck began to actively collect (save) antique cars in the late 1930's. He eventually accumulated over 1,500 classic and brass era cars. At some point in the 1950s, he suffered a major accident or disease that severely disfigured his face. From then on, he became a recluse and spent most of his time in Arizona. In the late 1950s, Peck held a series of auctions to dispose of his collection.

    It is common today to see significant cars with For Sale listings mentioning they were part of the Peck collection. A large percentage of the best surviving classics and brass cars in this country owe their lives to D. Cameron Peck, as he saved them when they were worth nothing or were on the way to WWII scrap drives.

    His connection to Ferrari is also interesting. Shortly after WWII, Peck hired Hal Ullrich fresh out of the army to be his mechanic. With this amazing collection of cars to work and learn on, Ullrich went on the become the "go to" guy in the Midwest for early Ferrari service. After Peck sold the cars, Hal and his brother Bill helped maintain Jim Kimberly's Ferraris and took care of many of the racing Ferraris in the Midwest. Hal also became a pretty fair race driver, winning the 1952 B Modified National Championship, among numerous other victories.

    Lots of other Ullrich Ferrari stories to tell someday.
     
  14. bbpathfinder

    bbpathfinder Karting

    Mar 29, 2011
    80
    Scottsdale AZ
    More perspective.These are median familiy income in the center , on the right are the amounts adjusted for inflation. So after adjusting for inflation, 1971 isnt really that bad.....But a top line F-car was still a big investment even then...



    Year Nominal $ Inflation Adjusted

    2011 $49,103 $50,054

    2001 $41,415 $53,646

    1991 $28,819 $48,516

    1981 $17,923 $45,260

    1971 $7,913 $44,707
     
  15. The Red Baron

    The Red Baron Formula 3

    Jan 3, 2005
    1,110
    Full Name:
    Warren
    Unfortunately the price of classic cars did not stay in line with inflation, or the average family income. I bought a 308 in 1978 for 20k. I could also have bought a 250GTO for around the same money. Made the wrong decision there.
     
  16. cuxa

    cuxa Karting

    Feb 19, 2005
    230
    Full Name:
    germain
    GREAT JOB - Thanks for sharing
     
  17. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,612
    NZ
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    Timothy Russell
    Yeah great stuff, although $9k must have been a lot of money in the 1950's and even the 1960's. I note the average house in 1950 was aparently US$8500. Rose to US$12,500 by 1959. So about the same cost as the average house, as an interesting comparator it now sits at US$176,000.

    But who wouldnt want a Bugatti Royale, Alfa 8C2900B, Mercedes Benz SSK & Ferrari 166MM. I will take all four thanks

    Brilliant stuff, keep it coming.
     

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