A few more asking prices from the "golden years" | Page 3 | FerrariChat

A few more asking prices from the "golden years"

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by bannishg, Sep 9, 2012.

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  1. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #51 bannishg, Sep 14, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
    True, but as the cars were increasing in value, it seemed that more privilege and glory would be attributed to their ownership. Not only did the inflation crisis ignite in the mid 70s, but later exotics were beginning to dethrone the larger pre-war classics. The most expensive car in 1970 was a Duesenberg J, which could run you over $50,000 at the time (compared to an $8,000 GTO). I know the GTO is always the example chosen for such analogies, but it is for good reason.

    In 1970, a GTO wouldn't get you much leverage in concours circles, but by 1975 it would. By the early 80's, a GTO could get you into pretty much any auto event in the world. Perhaps the 50s nostalgia that was so big in the 1970's also contributed to increased interest in the racers of that area.

    A GTO in 1970 was just an $8,000 toy, without any of the prestige of ownership that would come to it later. In 1975 it was a $35,000 collector icon. In 1980, it was a $200,000 ticket to the most exclusive automotive clubs and events in the world. As time went on it would be all those things and more and now it is arguably the holy grail of car collecting in general, with a price tag alone that exceeds the net worth of many high profile celebrities.

    So even though these figures were expensive for their respective times, all of them are profoundly better values in comparison to today.

    Also, many of these arguments to "take into account the value of the dollar at the time" are often used to console oneself over missed opportunities. A cup of coffee was a nickel in 1935, but that was a fortune back then!
     
  2. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    I was mostly shocked at the number of cars which I knew, or had driven/worked on/ckecked out as a part of "pre-inspection"(wow, is that being generous for 1972/3!)...had bought, tried to by, tried to trade for...from all over the US..
    I even remember a large number of these ads, the publications they appeared in and so forth...

    In this era, these cars were just "old race cars" or "cars for Playboys, movie stars, Rock and Roll musicians, corrupt politicians, and Gangsters"...

    "Proper people"("old money") didn't spend money on this sort of thing....my how things change...
    this was another famous reason for cars in the NE states to have been found in slate roofed carraige houses(these are larger than most peoples homes!), tucked out of view, until they had 4 flat and rotted tyres, with dead batteries-but otherwise in sound condition...

    in 1974 a 1957 500TRC was less than 20 years old...
    chew on THAT for a moment...

    so, $3500.00 was ALOT of money for such a car then...
    An average split level ranch in suburban BOSTON AREA WAS UNDER 20K, by quite a bit,
    I might add...

    a GTO was 12-15,000 by the early 1970s{by 73-74 they were into the 30s and 40s and the effects of the dawn of "vintage racing" could now be fully felt in what was now being called "a market"......
    you could buy a HOUSE then for this car's cost...
    a nice big house... in a town with good schools...

    FOR PERSPECTIVE-I paid my sophomore year at Harvard with the proceeds from selling a 275 I pulled out of a garage and got for(effectively) $2200..{alloy, long nose, BIG motor(no vins, it was 40 years ago!)}...
    Most people forget how BAD the economy of the 1970s was,
    so a kid making THAT kind of money with "junk" cars was, well...unheard of...
    NOTHING could make that sort of money over the summer break, nothing....
    so, what was not to love about it, driving cool sports/racing cars, and making money...
    All without having to pound nails, or clerk for a judge, or clean bed pans at the med school!
    This same car, I could have traded straight across, for the $7000.oo LM which he has listed that also was in Boston at the time(I never did understand why sooo many people wanted THAT 275...until 20 years later)...

    I notice that the OPer lists MASS as his address, there were ALOT of big Ferraris in NewEngland in this era-most that nobody knew about...
    only real car guys, and there were some real hard cores...

    A guy in Concord had a 375mm, several Californias were in Lexington, concord, Carlisle, sudbury and Lincoln area(tons of REALLY old line Yankee money in these towns...)
    LOTS of great stuff up in places like topsfield(Mex roadster, 250MM Vignale roadster), prides crossing and Mansfield....

    the last "missing" GTO{it was never missing, just almost nobody outside of the 50{?} people jockeying for it-me too-, knew that it was at a doctors house by a lake in Dartmouth, NH! circa 78/79??? ... '64 s/n 5xxx)

    All these prices, and all these memories-while intersting-of a bygone era, of carefree car hobbying, represents just another era of bygone innocence in the history of "americana"...
    the sort of pre-war WW2 reminiscences of middle america gone, but not forgotten ....

    the ads are faded out of the relavence of today by the big money, and faded on their edges just by the decades of time past...those of us who were "kids" in the 60s and 70s, have become "the old guy" now...
    funny how that works....

    VERY cool memories....post more if you have them...like I said, I'm SHOCKED at how many I am actually remembering...this is GREAT stuff...
     
  3. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    #53 bannishg, Sep 14, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2012
    I have lots more to post, so stay tuned!

    Yes I'm from the Springfield area of Mass. I have an impressive plot of old auto literature from my uncle that I have scanned onto my computer every now and then for the past 5 or 6 years. You probably wouldn't have guessed it, but I'm actually only 24. I have a fascination for market trends, and an interest in Ferraris. Most of the information I have is from my uncle and his friends, who were closely observing the markets, especially around 72 - 76. According to them the price of the competition Ferraris of the 50s and 60s doubled between Summer 73 and Summer 74. Apparently a GTO sold for $15k in 6/73, and in May 74, another sold for $28,000. A few more of the old racers were being unearthed from barns at the time and bought at sub-$5000 prices as late as 1975, when the actual market was 3-4 times higher, but shortly after everyone became aware of their value.

    I had no Idea that so many of the old racers were circulating in New England during that time, that's pretty cool. Thanks for sharing your memories, very eloquently put as well! :)
     
  4. tonyh

    tonyh F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Dec 23, 2002
    14,372
    S W London
    Full Name:
    Tony H
    great thread :)
     
  5. 335s

    335s Formula Junior

    Jan 17, 2007
    870
    SF Bay Area
    Full Name:
    T. Monma
    Auto Engineering in Lexington....
    Gawd...what a volume of stories there...

    I'll keep comments short-we were there 2-3 times a day, I had a car associate who was the number 1 wholesale buyer of BMW and MBs in the dlr network in greater Boston area from early mid 70s through the late 80s...so being in Lexington, and doing the highest volume based on economic demographics of the time, AND since owner Principle-Ken Olson-used to race D-type Jags etc, and he was old school, and a firm beleiver of service/repairs being an important part of after sale care of customer(how ANTIQUATED IS THAT NOTION in todays auto market?)..
    I remeber a Daytona spyder-and 2 coupes-one went to a guy in Arlington,
    {it could always be seen from the hill on RTE 2, on your way up the hill out of Cambridge into Lexington, on the rt, just about halfhway up the hill on the rt side, on frontage rd},
    the other one went to a guy in ME, I was told(who knows, 40 yrs ago, the A/C cobra that was also there then, was looked at by Michel Potheau's brother(the founder of the BMWCCA!), who instead went with a car from new york(a better car he told me)...
    Ken had an occasional odd car as he was a real "hard core" car guy at heart, a being a dlr was his "day job".
    The displays of the James Bond db-4GT(they cal them db-5s, but they sure LOOK like db-4 GTs to me...)Goldfinger and all...most clearly come to mind!

    A guy I knew drove up one day with me as passenger in a S-2 Cab....all the salesmen lost the stability in their knees=it was hysterical...these were the best car guys in sales in greater Boston and like everyone else, got "put to sleep" when the cab roared(and it had a hot motor so I do mean ROARED up to the front door)-we spent the rest of the day test driving everything on the lot..

    The owner of Foreign Motors in Brighton, and Foreign Motors West , was a HUGE PierceArrow expert/collector...his daughter and I went to grade school together in Lincoln in the 1960s...BIG on older MB, BMW-nothing Italian however...Lincoln was REALLY staid(2 Adams Family branches in town, founder of Digital Computers, Wang Computers, Editor in Chief for the Boston Globe[Do you remeber the newspaper column -"Ask Beth"?
    Beth Winship also a lived in this "village"...you get the picture ....

    Interestingly, the MB principle owner of Cambridge Imported Cars, was also a resident of Lincoln, and both of his sons, also were in my class, and baseball teams, (etc...),
    and when we were really young, Koren's dad was A REALLY HARD CORE CAR GUY, NOBODY had heard of Mangustas-let alone brought one home for his son to drive up and down the streets in(reality, a really rural area, where most "roads" were actually "private driveways", all be they several miles long, in many/most instances in the mid sixties...
    its funny how he had zero interest in the several incredible gullwings they had in inventory, cars that they had had to "swallow" in used car trade ins...
    there were 2-3 gullwings at $35-5000 levels, in various states of unbelieve-able original condition.
    Why woudln't they be perfect?
    With only a few thousand miles, and only being around 10 yrs old! ;-}
    THAT perspective is also important when doing these reminiscences...

    The Saab dlr in Natick was Gus Andrey-1955 E-production modified national SCCA champion in a series 1 Mondial[when stripped of paint, it was found that all nose rivets had been ground off!!!}-11 starts , 9 firsts as I recall...years later, we had the car in california, I was welding funkiness in the crankcase, prior to a line bore resize, when we did a complete size-ing survey and found that the car was in reality..a "special" F-2 500 2 liter...
    that motor would explain the incredible success the car enjoyed???

    As a point of fact: the docs showed to me at the time, indicated it was delivered directly from Italy(factory is an unknown here, but in mid 50s where else do you get one of these?), it was raced for the entire year, sold, died, put in a barn, resurrected, blew up upon restart, re barned, again it sat, for decades, again, before being another "barn find in the late...1970s", then shipped to California, at which point it appears to have been opened up for the first time since it had been in Italy....in the 1950s!
    It is just as likely that another motor was stuffed in after an earlier blow, as it was far easier to replace those things, than to repair them...

    Just look at all thye BIG cars listed that had chevys and fords in them...machine shop clowns like us kept these things from disappearing into the night to a far greater degree than people would like to give us credit for!
    All I can be certain of is that in the very late 70s, what came out of the car, at that date, was measured out to be closer to an F2, than a "regular 500" what happened in 1957 is something to which-in truth-I have ZERO first hand knowledge.
    This was when the light bulb went off in my head as to why all these guys had for years been asking me about chassis numbers, engine numbers, and "interno " numbers!
    For the first time, the impact this had on RACING cars, and historical accuracy, was beginning to become really important-especially since MY 1st Mondial was $1900.00 drive home affair, and this one had just had had 18K paid, and, for a basket case...with a motor with a hole in the block...!
    Perspective-again-is everything...
    Gus did well in bircages, and also had a big Lampredi 4.1-I think Sherman Wolf got this car years later?....

    There was a dentist in Carlisle, and another business guy, and a third guy who was "just a racing nut", who had a little shop-it was K???(cant remember his full name),Terry, and Roy-they called their shop: KTR...later bought out by John Geils in Groton(I lived there also)-an owner of an swb Cal and a tdf as well(a real car guy by the way), shop still in Littleton I'm told...

    There is a famous Rock and Roll Cafe in Brighton near BU called the Paradise(I had a room mate who was a sound engineer for Rock and Roll bands(really famous period acts), he was the sond board man on opening night...)
    This is only germaine as the bar was located in a bldg which had previously been one of the best Ferrari Independents in the Northeast-an ex GES guy, Sarkis Najjarian. He was from the old Eyache Dlr in Beruit prior to the revoulution.
    My first day I strolled in-by accident- I saw a guy in a Daytona ROLL IN THE DOOR and it shut immediately after, and there were no signs, no doors, open windows-it all said: GO AWAY...I stepped through trough a curtain and there it was: an LM, a SEFAC, and assorted 275s, GTSs, etc...but the fact that I knew it was an LM under a drpery of shower curtains impressed him enough to invite me into the office for cognac....we were fast freinds...this is for a story for another posting-a real old school guy from the glory era for Ferrari...
    He spent a year asking me if I knew where some odd ball cars were-specifically, 8815- as he was-apparently-one of the original constuction team members. He was shocked that not only I knew the car, but who owned it and where it was...(Ed Niles and I meet about 1 -3 years prior to this?)

    What I DID notice immediately was that all of the middle eastern/arabian exchange students from BU and Harvard and MIT, seemingly ALL brought their exotic cars here...
    the diplomatic plates on all of the Countach's were dizzying.
    Easily more Periscopas in this shop, on 1 day, than ANYWHERE IN NORTHAMERICA, in this time frame...it was a different time in those days, in more ways than one...

    More another time-got anymore old for sale clippings?
    I can't beleive what memories are getting jogged by this stuff...
     
  6. KenGoldman

    KenGoldman Formula Junior
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 25, 2009
    588
    MASS., USA
    Full Name:
    Kenneth Goldman
    Boy do I remember a few things from the last post:

    Sarkis O. Najjarian serviced my Maserati Merak--when I bought if from the factory back in 1975. Sarkis went over to Italy--called me on the phone--and sent it back. Boy was I excited. But the best 2 days were the day I bought it and the day I sold it. Always one thing or another going wrong with that car--and it was brand new! Sarkis had a son (Wally) and a couple of other guys working for me. Always cars there--I remember a Lamborghini as well as a Facel Vega. I traded a Firebird Formula 455 towards my Merak back then. I do miss the Pontiac--nice car.

    Then, I bought the Ferrari 308 GT4--another new car. This came from Alberto Pedretti of Wide World of Cars in NYC. Gas line froze up on me--could not keep it going--was always in the shop. Gaston Andrey serviced it for me. Still could not get it right. One problem after another. I finally traded it in on a Lincoln--no more Italian cars for over 25 years after these two.

    Tom Mix was the president of Foreign Motors. I bought a new Rolls Royce from them back in 1975--I was 22 years old then. The salesman, David Thomas, said to me "Are you sure you want that car--people are going to ask What are you doing with your mother's car?"

    Still, I went ahead & bought it. Just saw David a few weeks ago--I was still the youngest person to ever buy a RR from them!!

    Who would have thought that the money & better things to buy were the old used cars back then that no one wanted???

    Ken Goldman
     
  7. Wolf

    Wolf Formula Junior

    Nov 17, 2003
    499
    BTW: The ad for #3503 is for a replica (lhd!) based on a Vignal Spider chassis.

    Regards

    Wolfi
     
  8. mrbucket2

    mrbucket2 Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2006
    1,109
    Bergen County
    Full Name:
    Michael
    #67 mrbucket2, Sep 16, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
  9. bannishg

    bannishg Formula Junior

    Oct 6, 2008
    480
    Springfield area, MA
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Nice! Haven't seen those ones yet. Thanks for the upload! :)
     
  10. tongascrew

    tongascrew F1 Rookie

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,989
    tewksbury
    Full Name:
    george burgess
    Great stuff. Nice additions to many files. tongascrew
     
  11. Timmmmmmmmmmy

    Timmmmmmmmmmy F1 Rookie

    Apr 5, 2010
    2,612
    NZ
    Full Name:
    Timothy Russell
    An awesome, AWESOME thread, keep it coming

    t
     
  12. macca

    macca Formula Junior

    Dec 3, 2003
    692
    The Ferrari "P4" in post #64 is actually a 412P, or 330P3/4, 0854 now owned by Napolis.....but that's the first I've ever heard of it having been bored to 4.2L.

    Paul M
     
  13. mrbucket2

    mrbucket2 Formula 3

    Nov 6, 2006
    1,109
    Bergen County
    Full Name:
    Michael
    No problem. I'll have to ask him if he knows where it is still when I see him later and I'll try to take photos of all of the ads.
     
  14. John Vardanian

    John Vardanian F1 Rookie

    Jul 1, 2004
    3,043
    San Francisco Area
    Full Name:
    John Vardanian
    #73 John Vardanian, Sep 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    When it comes to Enzo's cars, don't need to go back that far in time, "golden" could mean just one decade. This ad is from 2002.

    john
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. ClassicFerrari

    ClassicFerrari F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa

    Jan 7, 2004
    16,798
    Toronto
    Full Name:
    Vasco
    I agree :)
     
  16. Ed Niles

    Ed Niles Formula 3
    Honorary

    Sep 7, 2004
    2,493
    West Hills, CA
    Full Name:
    Edwin K. Niles
    #75 Ed Niles, Sep 17, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017

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