A few Datejust Questions | FerrariChat

A few Datejust Questions

Discussion in 'Fine Watches, Jewelry, & Clothes' started by JP365, May 5, 2021.

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  1. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    I'm turning 50 in July and decided to buy a used Datejust. I've pretty much decided on either a 16030, 16014, or a 16220. I know I want a silver dial and a jubilee bracelet. I do not want to spend over $5500 before taxes. At Wingate in Texas, I can get either a 16014 for $5,000 + tax and shipping, or a 16220 for $5,500 + tax and shipping. Illinois is one of those states where you must declare tax-free purchases from other states on your 1040, so I will have to pay 10.25% in the end. Locally I can get a 16220 for $6,100 including taxes from Howard Frum. The problem with the one at Frum is that it has a black dial. They will swap out the black dial for an authentic 16220 silver dial and keep the black one. None of these watches come with box and papers. All of them have a one year warranty against defects.
    Questions:
    1) No pics of the one at Frum, but what are your thoughts on the watches at Wingate?
    https://www.tic-tock.com/watches/mens/Rolex/Datejust/25198#
    or
    https://www.tic-tock.com/watches/mens/Rolex/Datejust/18043
    2) I think the prices are fair. What do you think?
    3) Is switching the dial a big deal? Part of me thinks it will impact the price/value but the other part of me is completely fine with it.
    4) Experiences with either of these sellers?

    Thanks for your input.
     
  2. Shark01

    Shark01 F1 Veteran

    Jun 25, 2005
    5,684
    No box and papers? That would be a no-go for me personally. So would you get the original dial along with the replacement? If so, I wouldn’t mind that.

    No experience with these sellers, but the only good watch I have is a date just 16233 (1994).
     
    albert328gts likes this.
  3. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
    Los Angeles/Montreal
    Full Name:
    Chris
    I don't have answers to your questions, but be carefull with vintage watch purchases, the condition of the movement, originality, and whether or not it's been polished.
    The linked watch seems to be a good example, but there are no photos of the movement.
    Check out Chrono24 for price comparisons.
     
  4. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    Thanks for the replies. Frum would keep the black dial. I go back and forth about the box and papers. I know they add value from a resale perspective, but I haven’t decided if it is a deal breaker. Wingate just got a 16234 for $5500, but again, no box and papers. I’m also in contact with a Fchat member which may be the best of all worlds.
     
  5. QtrItalian

    QtrItalian Karting

    Jan 22, 2021
    172
    Ok here's my input (I know we don't know each other).....
    1. I would stay away from the first Wingate all steel watch. What I don't like: Minute hand too long (extends into the minute track), no luminous dot at end of each hour marker as it should have. Hour markers may be too short in profile off dial (hard to see), Crystal seems tall but hard to say, Overall brushed appearance is too clean but watch may have been refinished. I am concerned it may not be real or at least the dial / hands seem wrong.
    2. I don't know anything about Wingate but their prices are strong. Keep in mind their "replacement" price refers to a modern 6-digit version of these watches which even when found used have a much higher "used" and resale price.
    3. I got a great deal out of TX on a 3 year old (still just within warranty) 116233 (which is the one at over $11K replacement) for $6400. This was a couple years ago and prices have moved on - but you may be able to swing a 6-digit with hidden clasp, modern polished case and appearance and arguably better attachment of band to watch head. Ohh and I did this like you just before age 50 as my brother-in-law inherited my dad's circa 1973 (another story).
    4. Always get a serial number (or partial). On a 5-digit you could be buying a circa 2005 or 1975. There's a difference in movements/accuracy and also if it's from the '70s when was the last time serviced? Don't think for a minute the dealer/reseller is doing anything but claiming it will run within 10 sec a day - but for how long? At least with a 6-digit model it will probably get you another 5 years before having to send in. The current 6-digits are +/- 2 sec/day and they mean it.
    5 (lastly) There are a billion 5-digit models around. They're cheap. Find one in the combination you want, from a dealer you can trust and for a decent price. There's no reason to skimp. They sky's not falling - these can be found all day, every day.....
    Good luck!
     
    albert328gts likes this.
  6. Dyim

    Dyim Rookie

    Jun 28, 2014
    9
    Canada
    In the watch world, we say buy the seller, not the watch.

    Agree with above post regarding lots of options out there. Definitely take your time and shop around.

    If you mod your watch, sometimes Rolex will refuse servicing it. The other option is to not get it serviced at Rolex.
     
  7. dsd

    dsd F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 19, 2006
    4,185
    Northern Virginia
    Wingate plays fast and lose with description. Box and papers, sure just not for the matching serial number (happened to me with them). I’d find a better seller.
     
  8. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    Thanks for the replies. Not in a rush, per se, but want to buy before my birthday in July. If I don’t do it by my birthday, I know myself, and I’ll just put it off until my 55th or 60th or....
     
  9. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    Was the watch itself suspect, or just the paperwork?
     
  10. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    I’ve been looking for a little over a year, and there were several that came and went through HQMilton and Bobs that I should have bought, but hesitated just a little too long. Don’t plan on mods, but that was my concern about the one from Howard Frum. They have an excellent reputation here in Chicago, so when they said they would swap out the black dial for an authentic silver dial, I began giving it some serious thought. Is this a big no no?

    If you mod your watch, sometimes Rolex will refuse servicing it. The other option is to not get it serviced at Rolex.[/QUOTE]
     
  11. dsd

    dsd F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 19, 2006
    4,185
    Northern Virginia
    The watch was fine just paperwork not as advertised. Had a great experience with HQ Milton.
     
  12. flat_plane_eddie

    flat_plane_eddie F1 Rookie
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Mar 30, 2013
    3,142
    NE FL
    Full Name:
    Eddie
    [/QUOTE]
    Don't lose sleep over switching the dials. Rolex used to do that themselves until a few years ago. As long as the date is original it's no problem.

    Now on newer stuff, on which they keep track of what dial came on the watch originally, they might complain but even then I'm not 100% sure.
     
    cls likes this.
  13. QtrItalian

    QtrItalian Karting

    Jan 22, 2021
    172
    You can check out Bobs (bobswatches.com) to get a sense of wholesale/retail or the buy/sell prices. I would say a: they're reputable, easy to approach online or by phone, and they sell real stuff at somewhat reasonable used/retail prices. We bought one watch from them, now since traded locally and b: their trade-in price (their "sell"-to-them) price) is not firm. They will potentially lower that once you've mailed them your item and they knock it for having scratches, being too old, etc. We decided to trade my wife's older 5-digit knowing our local dealer wanted even less for it. Annoyingly despite being the original owner, having box/papers, etc it's just another watch to them in the end to profit from. At any rate for a purchase they're reputable but no stellar deals, but at least some piece of mind and at least an accurate description, date of manufacture, etc.
     
  14. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    And the winner is... a 16220 that Eddie found for me! Very smooth transaction and the watch is in great shape. As others have said, Eddie is awesome. Highly recommend! Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  15. JP365

    JP365 Formula 3

    Mar 8, 2007
    1,340
    Chicago
    Full Name:
    John F
    Now if I could just take decent pics...
     

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