964 vs 348 which to buy

964 T or 965...I love that car, just less than the 355 lol.
But imho the ask prices are too high. Great looking car though. Ive been looking for one for a few yrs on and off.

 

Never owned a 964 but I've driven dozens of them on the track. Used to have a good friend with a nicely sorted 964 race car who was kind enough to share it with me, so I do have a fondness for them.

That said, I'd never buy one over a 348 unless I was a total P-Bug junky or if maintenance costs were of primary concern (such as if you're thinking of making it a semi-daily-driver). The 348 is on an entirely different plane than the 964, IMO. But I'm an Italian car fan, so Ferraris speak to me much more than German cars do.

I know there are lots of Porsche fans who would answer differently, and I can see that. If the air cooled 911s really flip your switch I think the 964 is a great one to have. It's a lot like the 348 of the 911 range-- it gets overlooked until you study the cars closely, at which point you realize just how much it has going for it. While I like the torque in the later 993s, the 964 feels more nimble and seems to offer better feedback than the heavier 993s. If you're into mods, that opens up even more possibilities...

This is clearly a subjective decision and you're only the person you have to worry about making happy with your choice. But for whatever it's worth, after having spent many years driving other peoples' Ferraris and Porsches, the 348 was the only one I wanted to put in my garage.

 

I have a 964 and a 355. Two different cars I can't imagine. I strongly recommend you drive both before deciding. If running costs are a factor, consider that this year, I spent about $100 on the 911. But it's fairly sorted out. The 355 required over 100x that amount this year. But it needed a good amount of sorting. But even in a good year, I can't imagine it being that cheap to run.

Everyone stops to talk about the F car, one third as many, but still lots, want to talk about the 964.

The 355 is a dog around town, but very fast once "on the cam". The 964 is quite modded, but tromps the f car, and frankly everything else from light to light. Way more, instant fun, but way less theatre.

The f car is very low, and a pain and worry over curbs and bumps. The 964, despite a euro RS spec alignment and ride height is never a thought.

Hope those thoughts help.

Rk

 

own a 348 and love every bit of it.....drove a 964 C4 and man was it a blast..... my advice is not really much of help but i'm sure you'll love both cars.....

 

I originally wanted a 993 Turbo but I watched the prices soar from the side lines.

Then I started looking at the 355. I was shocked to see they had almost not moved at all (when I started looking about a year ago).

I still love 993's and will probably grab one at some point (probably just a C2S though) but I couldn't be happier with my 355 purchase. The way it sings when "on the cam" never gets old...and I'm just running hyperflow cat's with an original Tubi muffler. I can't wait to hear it once I do a full exhaust upgrade and my Gruppe M intake arrives.

 

I had a 993 with 180k miles on it; really enjoyed the car but after 2 1/2 years it was time for something else. Mine had a Fister exhaust which is an absolute must in my opinion. Working on it was a bit of a pain since the engine is tucked away in the back.

The 348/355 has the whole engine out thing which is a pain too, I guess. Since you already had a few 911s, I'd say get a Ferrari. You can always go back if you don't like it.

Funny thing is, if you work on them yourself, I don't think Ferraris are that much more expensive. 911 air cooled mechanics sure aren't that cheap.

EDIT: I just noticed you already have a 355...why not try another brand altogether?

 

I highly recommend the 348 spider.

I highly discourage you on buying a 964 unless a late model. Even then...

348 spider is rare with only 1000 made and looks fantastic. I want one. Yellow one at the Enzo Ferrari Museum was just amazing.

Robb

 

Fantastic. Go for the 348...

Robb
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I've run both a 993 and 348 for several years now, chalk and cheese man.

348 is like driving a tight ultra responsive little Kart compared to the 993. I've often considered which of the two I'd sell first if I ever had to, much as I love its old school quirkiness and its history of successes in motorsport the answer would be the 993 as the first to go.

The Porker 964/993 may be 'last of the air cooled's blah blah' but hey the 348 is (in my view) the last of the 'raw' Ferrari's, oh and designed under Enzo's watch, thankfully not Monte's.

 

I haven't driven a 964 or a 993, but I have owned a 348 for 10 years and I love this car A LOT!

I have driven two different 911s, an 81 and an 89, both cool cars but I would much rather my 348.

It is a much better car than both of my friends Porches that I have driven over the years.

Plus the 348 looks much better also.
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I owned a 964 c2 for 5 years and now have a 348ts (I've owned 9 Porches in the past) and it was a blast to drive but in my opinion was the worst air cooled 911. The engines leak oil over the place and is a well known problem. Before they became collectible I new dealers that wouldn't touch them but that's a different story now. Oil collects in the under tray so you may not notice for a while.
The engine will eventually need a rebuild too and is something to ask if it's been done when buying one.
Don't get me wrong, it's a great car but I would never choose one over a 348. The very narrow body and fat bumpers are subjective. The 993 however is a much better car. But still for me it's the 348.

 

What is the "RWB thing"??

I think the decision all depends on what you want this purchase to be- a 1-2K mile/year weekend driver where you want to have a "special" experience each time you drive the car with all the great noises (Ferrari) or a still special though not as much experience of driving a car that's built like a tank, relatively/comparatively cheaper to maintain that also has nice noises and can be driven basically however many miles you want?

For example, I have always had a weekend car, and once I had kids the amount of driving I did in the weekend car decreased- thus I wanted the maximum "entertainment"/mile and didn't care about having a car I wouldn't mind driving 5+K miles/year. I moved from a 964 to a 360. 6 years later, I did sell my 360 and look for a clean low mileage 993 cabriolet (I partially thought of it to change things up a bit and since I could put a couple of kids in back), but the the prices had come up so much I went with an F355 spider which for not much more money is much more entertainment. The maint. will be more with the 355 so I'll be paying more for that, but as a car guy it really is so special experiencing a Ferrari. And I'm usually driving the car by myself in early morning weekend runs, or with one other passenger (wife for occasional dinner, one kid at a time for a quick run), so the extra seats didn't really matter that much in the end.

I love the air-cooled 911s- it's not just the fact that the engine is air (oil) cooled, but the philosophy of how they were built- like tanks. All the materials, design and construction- a unique quality that you can feel all about the car. I had a '78, '87 and '93 911 over the course of ~15 years. The later 964's (~mid '92-94) are the best ones to get. The earlier 964's didn't have a head gasket so are more prone to leaks (although most have probably been corrected by now)- not sure what year peterdavid911 had, but I had no leaks to speak of in my '93. It really was a great car & only sold it to get the 360. - I was willing to get a 993 after the 360 so I certainly still love them, but there are tradeoffs going either direction- again I think it really comes down to what you want for this purchase (including the maint. budget for this acquisition)

Regarding the comment on 993 vs 964 torque, I didn't really notice much power difference when driving a 993 vs the 964...the 964 and 993 both have the 3.6 liter motor, which has a very noticeable amount of additional torque than the prior 3.2 liter of '84-'89 cars.

You seem like you are kind of in two separate places- constructing a lightweight 911 (presumably coupe) or stock 348 convertible. I don't think you can loose too much either way though The lofty 911 prices drove me back to a Ferrari (and at this point I'm pretty glad too as the sound of a 355 spider at 8K RPM is never tiring), so I can certainly relate to how the 911 prices right now are turning you off.

 

Well - this is VERY different question! You don't need us to tell you about the relative merits/foibles of the cars - you want us to guide you in a personal project direction question - which is unanswerable!

I saw a Singer at a local air cooled gathering recently - and while it's a stunning car - not sure it was worth the $400k spent on in.

This is all about what lights a fire in your soul - which car is gonna make you look back at it EVERY time you park and think - "Man, I'm SO happy I got/built that"

Whichever one does that - is the car for you! Let us know how it goes.

RK

 

348 no question

 

There are some very good comments above but I think the best has been said, drive a 964 and see how it makes you feel. I am fortunate to have both a 964 and a 348 and they are as has been mentioned, two entirely different experiences. For me the big difference is the 964 is a really great DE car and a great candidate to truly learn how to handle a car without the engine up front. I have had mine for 20 years and the maintenance is very reasonable. One slight correction to what has been said, the cylinder leakage issue was solved mid way through the '91 model year and is something to check (engine serial number is your friend). The other big issue was the dual mass flywheels on manual trans cars but they should have all been sorted by now unless you find a really low milage car. One final thing, I have had several aircooled 911's and I have yet to find any car that sounds as solid when you close the doors, true tanks as has been said. Good luck and keep us posted.

 

I may be thinking of the switch to the LUK clutch in mid-1992? I just remember that by mid-1992 the head gasket thing and clutch were upgraded, plus the cup wheels and mirrors that came in 1992...as a result I focused on looking for a later 92-94 964s, which were not made in the same quantity as the 1990-1991 model year cars (early 90's recession, and high cost of the car- my 1993 had a $78K sticker price in 1993 dollars! I had a Cab C2- couple of options, one of them being the turbo rims) I bought the car in 2001 and sold it in 2009 to buy the 360- great car! I would say my dream garage would be an aircooled 911 plus v8 ferrari, but now having the 355 and 360 I think I'd want one of each (the 355 and 360 are so different)

Madturk- have you considered a 355 spider, or trying to keep the car a little more mechanically simple?

 

The 964 I had was a 90 model, which are prone to the oil leaks and other problems as mentioned above.
Great advice by the other owners here to go for a much later model if possible.
Do a search on Google for 964 issues / reviews and see what you can find out about what changes were made through the years. Same with the 348 which had numerous factory upgrades throughout production.
Having owned both I would not sell my 348 for another 964. However the 964 in my opinion is better suited as a daily driver or even a trip to the supermarket than the Ferrari.
Hope you find what you're looking for, either will be a great experience.

 

Presently, my two 'toy' cars are a last year "real" '89 911 and a 355. I thought that I might be able to give you some insight into the two different cars, then I saw that you already know it. You just have to channel your inner self, and all will be revealed.

 

While I do not have a 964, I DO have a 993 and a 348. Don't ask me to choose! They're equally rewarding to drive, even quite conservatively, but are totally different experiences.

I must say, though -- when talking 964 vs 348, I would go with the 348 for sure...and I do like 964s. Caveat - unless it's a 3.6 turbo or a Flachbau

 

Ive tinkered with the rwb idea myself but the price of the 964 alone made the idea not worth it. Id take a wrecked 964 and have rwb do it up..then i wouldnt care about potentially butchering a classic lol.

 

Sounds like a plan.

Likewise, my son will have my 348 and my daughter will have my 993, as that's what they each prefer.