812 VS Rumors | Page 84 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. MANDALAY

    MANDALAY F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed Silver Subscribed

    May 23, 2013
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    ANGELO

    Interesting on your diagram it clearly shows the 2 sensors with the hose attachments but in the F8 diagram it doesn't . Can you call up the description to part 27
     
  2. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
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    Karl
    I only have what I attached, unfortunately
     
  3. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
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    Karl
    Note that the GPF contains sensors monitored by the ECU. That should be easy enough to fix, like the current plug in modules that avoid 'check engine' warnings for replacement cats. What's less clear to me is that the GPF creates back pressure; if you remove it, does that mess with the engine i.e. is the engine tuned to operate with that back pressure? If so, how to deal with this? Maybe someone with more technical knowledge than me can explain...
     
  4. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    #2079 JTSE30, Jul 25, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 25, 2020
    Please take this discussion here:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147238935/

    (and you may want to consider that these GPF devices, retail price $4200 USD each, include all the sensors(built-in) and only wires+connectors to plug in and there are no separate/replaceable sensors)
    further, you might find this illustrative:
    https://www.jaginfo.org/threads/h135-ups7418-4-incorrect-sensor-installed-on-gasoline-particulate-filter-gpf.106970/

    The GPF devices are not ornamental, they are functional and removal without some "defeat" method to distract the ECUs will result in CEL, guaranteed. This is fact, not hypothesis.
     
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  5. JagShergill

    JagShergill Formula 3

    Dec 31, 2014
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    Jag shergill
    Shame!! Thanks for the info
     
  6. Igor Ound

    Igor Ound F1 Veteran

    Sep 30, 2012
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    are we there yet?
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  7. Lagunae92

    Lagunae92 Formula 3
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  8. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
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    Thank you, sure seems quiet, very quiet...
     
    wrs likes this.
  9. Lagunae92

    Lagunae92 Formula 3
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    Feb 16, 2018
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    I'm not worried. Still very early...The only thing I don't like from testing is the sound being lower pitched.
     
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  10. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
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    Guys let’s face facts - the VS will have GPF and it will sound worse than your Superfast. Do you want to pay a lot extra for that? Step right up
     
    Thecadster likes this.
  11. gliazzurri

    gliazzurri Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2016
    326
    Maryland
    It’s a hard sell depending on what people like about the car. Those who want the vs will always want the vs regardless but it sure was a bad time to implement the gpf mid sequence so that the 812sf will likely stock sound more robust than the 812vs. A very curious proposition and set of time.
     
  12. Lagunae92

    Lagunae92 Formula 3
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    Feb 16, 2018
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    Take my money! There are likely work-arounds. It’s part of the fun.
     
    stavura, Caeruleus11, Dicecal and 2 others like this.
  13. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    Feb 4, 2014
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    Not too many numbered LEs get modified so they usually stay as is for the duration.
     
  14. Lagunae92

    Lagunae92 Formula 3
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    Let’s see what comes out. Nothing that can’t be put back to stock.
     
  15. KarlA69

    KarlA69 Formula Junior

    Oct 9, 2017
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    Maybe they'll do an EU version that emits only kitten farts and the US spec will be decatted.
     
  16. 456-boy

    456-boy Formula 3

    Jun 23, 2005
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    Victor
    Back on the discussion a few posts ago about the fact this 812VS could be limited and restricted only for the US: it wouldn’t be the first time that Ferrari recently launched a new model into a specific market. See the F60 America which is a spider version of the F12tdf with new design and for US market only ; see also the J50 which is a lightly more powerful version of the 488 Spider with different design and only for the Japanese market. (Do I forget one?)

    The recent Monza is only proposed with EU specs and it can’t be homologated in the US (nor certain parts of Australia and maybe some other countries), plus the fact that EU requires GPF which is a bit contradictory with a more powerful car, plus the fact that Ferrari has already developed new versions for specific markets... it is totally possible that Ferrari has decided to develop this 812VS for (a) specific market(s) to make some customers happy (and some other angry), which would be a way to make the car more limited and desired.

    Now the fact/rumour that it is limited to 812 units is not the typical quantity we have been used to for market limited models.

    Time will tell!
     
  17. RotKopf

    RotKopf Karting

    Jul 27, 2004
    208
  18. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
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    Why?

    The environmental impact of CH4 emissions from vehicles is negligible and is likely to remain so for the foreseeable future.

    source 2004 study:
    https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/15112800/

    --and--

    Sources of CH4 in California
    Agriculture accounts for the majority of emissions, primarily from livestock enteric fermentation and manure management. Industrial sources and landfills are also important sources of CH4. Other sources contribute only a small fraction to CH4emissions, and include residential, transportation, electricity generation, and commercial sources.

    source:
    https://ww3.arb.ca.gov/cc/inventory/background/ch4.htm
     
  19. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    I'm bored of all this GPF discussion. Whatever the GPF has inside, there will be immediately a by pass, a trick, a decoy or what else to remove it without any flashing light and so on. This said, no idea why it should be a problem: we have since many years lambda sensors and catalytic exausts without destroying any driving pleasure or sound. The same will happen with GPF. And let me say that every ICE engine with GPF will sound much better than any electric engine without it

    ciao
     
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  20. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
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    This is why we worry about GPF and EU noise+ CO2 regulations:

    https://www.henryherald.com/news/your_money/you-cant-drive-this-new-lamborghini-supercar-down-your-street/video_f14733aa-7a36-52c5-93bc-889c4a8e1ad2.html
    Lamborghini has just unveiled a new 819 horsepower supercar that owners won't be able to legally drive on public roads. But if you buy the Essenza SCV12, Lamborghini will let you keep it in a special garage at the company's headquarters in Italy.

    It is crippling the ability to make a proper V12, and you will only have EV or hybrid in the EU market.

    And, Ferrari develops to the "lowest common denominator" (for emissions), that adversely affects everyone worldwide.

    It does not matter if some after-market solution exists if the car is never originally produced. You cannot modify a car that does not exist.
     
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  21. gliazzurri

    gliazzurri Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2016
    326
    Maryland
    I agree...the discussion may be boring to some, but frankly it changes the car in some other fundamental operational way that switching it from a fully NA to part-NA and part-turbo or part-NA/part-hybrid technology goes. And for those of us who are sound addicts, it changes the character of the car! Again that is not everyone's thing or top tier item, but it is different.
    Simple question and I think most would probably agree, thus justifying the point...but if you had your pick of buying an 812 (SF, GTS, VS, any model in the future) without GPF or 812 with GPF, which will you pick?????
    I doubt anyone here who is in the know will pick the second option.
     
  22. Albert-LP

    Albert-LP F1 Veteran
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    If you have 400 K to buy an 812 GTS, you do have another 10 k for a Tubi Style (or which you prefer) special exhaust without any cat, GPF and so on.

    This is a thread about 812VS and not about GPF: every post is welcome, but please open another discussion about the car's future and so on, as in my opinion this is not the correct place to talk about antipollution systems and so on.

    812 VS will have a V12 NA engine with a nice sound (everyone here heard it) and by far better than any exhisting electric car: this is 100% correct and not an opinion.

    Ciap
     
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  23. gliazzurri

    gliazzurri Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2016
    326
    Maryland
    We ARE talking about the 812VS, and the fact that it almost surely without a doubt has a GPF. You do not have to reply to the discussion if you would not like to. And there is no need to instruct about opening new threads as it is overtly pertinent. And going back to your response, which was not addressing my question I posed...the question is not can you buy a Tubi exhaust if you can buy the GTS, but would you prefer to buy the GTS with a GPF or not. We all know you can buy an exhaust, but you can not buy the GTS without the GPF and almost surely not the VS without the GPF.
    In spite of that, I would like to thank you for your contributions to the forum in the past as well.
     
    Albert-LP likes this.
  24. ferrarifanatic25

    ferrarifanatic25 Formula Junior

    Apr 9, 2009
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    #2099 ferrarifanatic25, Jul 29, 2020
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2020
    We also must not forget that many owners would rather not modify their cars. Whether it be out of respect for Maranello or uncertainty when it comes to your warranty, the vast majority of Ferrari’s and especially the LE models will never be modified.

    Sure, if you can afford a new 812 you can probably afford an aftermarket exhaust. But that doesn’t mean most Ferrari owners make dumb decisions such as potentially voiding the warranty on a $500k asset that could very well break for god knows what reason. Most people who can afford these cars got to this point because they make good financial decisions and voiding a warranty on something this expensive is NOT a good financial decision. Technically, you can say that buying a $500k depreciating automobile is not a good financial decision either, so take this point as you will. But in practice, most people will not be modifying their 812VS.

    Also, I think solely focusing on GPF is missing the major issue here. The GPF can be defeated and car makers will continually improve upon it until the cars sound just fine. The real issue is the noise regulations, which basically make the GPF a mute (pun intended) point when cars are only allowed to be as loud as your average everyday sedan.
     
  25. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    When tire noise is more apparent than engine noise, such as in the video above
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147356951/

    that's a problem, because then it is just as loud as an EV, and I suppose it may require "sound supplementation", wouldn't that be something?
    https://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/rulemaking/pdf/Quiet_Cars_Draft_EA.pdf

    a Ferrari so quiet artificial sounds must be added..

    How does this relate to the 812VS? As shown in the video above, it's quiet, too quiet, sure they might tweak it, but, you must remember the factory knows very well that any cars driving around its facility will be recorded, so, perhaps the factory is letting us know what is going on by virtue of this awareness....
     

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