Guys this is the 812 VS thread! The endless GPF and end of production 812 SF discussion is boring and senseless at this point because there is no conclusion. And when I read the F8 sounds probably as good as the 812 with GPF proves that someone has no idea of engine differences. Let‘s get back here to 812 VS news again... Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Correct, GPF is not an orderable option, but the question remains where Ferrari will produce 812SF's for the USA with it...they probably will, but, none have yet been reported. And yes, if you order an 812SF today it is quite likely to be a MY2021 though for a simple build it remains possible to be completed for MY2020 it is goes 10R by early June...
My poor wording, I meant to say that no one in the US will want to order one if it has the GPF,not that it was an option you could add. Instead I would think they would pick up a nicely discounted pre-owned model.
Which explains why stock of pre gpf 812 will likely be absorbed in the next 12 months the competition will be GTS which has gpf and those cars wont hit the market for at least 12 months or more and those that will will be at much prices than pre owned pre gpf 812’s
Yes so back on topic. Since the VS usually does showcase the replacement model the soundbites i heard were that it will likely have some form of assistance(whether that’d be turbo or turbo hybrid isn’t clear) and not be numbered ie pista-like production.
I very much doubt it...If it was limited before they wont make it unlimited amidst a crisis. Sales will crater. As far as I know the car will still be limited but the launch has been pushed into 2021 Sent from my iPad using FerrariChat
It could be a limited run if the car end up being produced for only a year without being number, similar to what they did fir the pista spider Vs speciale aperta. Things aren't the same as before since the company went public. Not saying it can’t be numbered just saying there’s no reason it must be.
So now that the GTS requirements have been loosened, what will that do for getting one of these? Anyone heard anything about it yet?
My personal opinion you won’t be able to walk into a dealer and get one easily at least during the first few months. If it is assisted with some turbo / hybrid with similar weight i will personally see it as a pseudo replacement of the 812 already and not necessarily as a limited edition VS of the 812 especially if it’s not numbered. In that case and if the price is much higher than the base 812 i’m not convinced the demand and excitement will be comparable to what it was when the tdf was launched. Some People may just want to stick to the already extraordinary last na 812 and wait to see what the new replacement will be . Think about the F8 that used the same engine as the pista. The new production series 812 replacement may well use the 812VS engine or even an upgrade so i think people will put some serious probability to that scenario especially in the current economic climate . My guess..
In other words if demand isn’t as large as they expect they will loosen criteria especially if the car isn’t numbered let alone if it has GPF which may put some people off. Criteria on the GTS only loosened because the demand wasn’t as strong as what they expected
Yep, that's exactly the problem here. If the VS is just the bridge to the replacement, why buy it? The Pista is a track focused car which clearly makes it different from the F8 so the buying audience is a little different. On the whole though, an average driver will be just as happy with the F8 at the track as the Pista and probably happier with the F8 on the street than the Pista. In addition, the F8 isn't as expensive as the Pista but you get Pista level performance. Same was true with the 488 over the Speciale but at least Speciale is the last NA V8 so it has more cachet that way. Right, the demand would seem to be a problem becuase it appears the sf90 already cannibalized the 812 market so who is the 812 VS supposed to attract? Collectors? If the sf90 is the more exclusive car already, why would anyone want the 812 vs, numbered or otherwise? How can it compete because it will have a GPF, period. How will it be special with 80 more horsepower but 25-30% less sound than the 812 no one wants? Why will anyone want it just because they are making it a limited run? The SF90 is likely to be more exclusive. So anyway, if you don't need to own the 812 to buy a GTS, why would you need to own the 812 to buy one of these?
Precisely to me to justify the extra cost with less sound it needs to have that cachet and if it is assisted with turbo/hybrid for me personally tweaking a bit the aerodynamics here and there wont be enough to justify the huge extra money it i stick to my 812. It will appeal to those who bought many cars on which they lost money to access the limited runs hoping they would buy it and make money short term by flipping it If it doesn’t have the cachet of say the tdf as a pure na v12 lightweight track version of the 812 to justify keeping it long term. As it relates to the sf90 to me that car is not comparable to the 812 a v8 with gpf with turbo and 3 electric motors is nothing to compare to a na v12 non gpf 800 hp... it did cannibalise part of the 812 orders because some people just want the most expensive and faster stuff out there without knowing much about the engine, wait til they announce the sf90 spider soon and the 812 replacement which will likely be a turbo hybrid with well over 1000hp which will cost more than the sf90.
To answer your last question i think there will be some sort of criteria unless demand happens to be near zero. Otherwise how would they justify selling it to anyone who just wants one when they’ve been forcing so many people into an expensive game of buy this get that promising them access to the 812VS ? They would just lose their entire credibility and i can’t imagine anyone sensible continuing to play that game. It would be interesting to see how strong the demand is and how ferrari this time will manage supply vs pleasing their clientbase
If they didn't lose their credibility with the Pista, why would they care? The reality is that they do not want demand to significantly exceed supply, because that means money left on the table; making people believe demand exceeds supply is just a trick to set the price higher.
Agreed with your last statement however people now realise and understand that demand does not materially exceed supply anymore which i expect will have an effect on future demand As it relates to the pista lots of customers who indeed bought it were not happy with the f8 announcement shortly after using the same engine on a car materially cheaper.several customers are trying to flip their pistas with no luck so i do think they did lose some sort of client-base confidence here. Same on the GTS where they ended up loosening criteria to get one not to mention recent cancellations of orders. I think they should and will care a bit more failing to do so may cause financial damage but i may be wrong...
So do they think we are all stupid here and can't see all the cars for sale? That is how they have lost their credibility with the Pista. They overproduced it, numerous customers didn't have to buy anything special to get it and the F8 performs as well in most areas but it's less expensive.
Not only that but in the end they bought a car on which they can at best get their money back! So why bother buy a bunch o other cars you dont like and lose money on those when you can now get one around msrp and get a wide selection sitting with dealers to choose from..
Don't underestimate the fact that Pista buyers are so happy to have paid much more for a Pista to avoid getting an F8 driving like a Bentley
Yeah... seen from that angle I don’t disagree. Hopefully the future isn’t about making cars that drive like bentleys otherwise i will struggle to see how they will maintain pricing and margin let alone convincing people convincing people to lose hundreds of thousands to get a more expensive version of a bentley produced in large numbers... Joke aside you see my point I’m sure pista owners are happy about the car its a great car but respectfully said i doubt all of them would spend again as much on other unwanted cars in order to get the car if they could go back. Not sure its worth losing minimum 150k or so between a 488/lusso or whatever to enjoy the privilege of spending 400k on a new pista which will be made in a very large number. My view.
A lot of talk about Pista and F8 in 812VS thread. Every car ever made is a limited run car. Nothing special about that in a modern Ferrari. They will wait to offer the car to see how to sell one less than the demand. Lots of other production vehicles to offer on risk without taking a risk on this VS car pricing. No plaque then no sale for most serious collectors.
It’s not clear whether F are going to target serious collectors with that. They already target them through multi-million one off’s and icona’s. They may well decide to target the broad audience of multi-cars buyers who are “helping” the company by rewarding them with a limited production track oriented version without necessarily adding a plaque to it. After all if there are enough of those buyers out there and F can make money without limiting production to 599/799 or what not i don’t see why they wouldn’t. After all that’s what they did with pista spider where i bet they produced between 1500 and 2000 cars easily. All im saying is that car doesn’t have to target the most serious collectors. And let’s not forget if it ends up having a turbo and GPF it may not be that compelling for the most serious collectors either.
Ferrari stated some time ago that only Icona would be limited (or vice-versa depending how you read that). 812VS is likely to be the same as Pista - limited only by time produced and not specific in number. Ferrari is foremost a business and the experience with the Pista will show they can sell a lot more 812VS than 799 TdFs. The trick for them is not to piss-off loyalty customers the way they did with the Pista launch. Sent from my iPhone using FerrariChat
