812 VS Rumors | Page 114 | FerrariChat

812 VS Rumors

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by Frenzisko, Feb 10, 2018.

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  1. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
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    Jan 21, 2017
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    Have you sat in a classic Ferrari v12 roadster and listened to the engine?
     
  2. johnsonchris84

    Dec 27, 2017
    15
    Orlando Florida
    Full Name:
    Christopher Johnson
    #2827 johnsonchris84, Nov 28, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 28, 2020
    for me it’s not about louder as it about refined. The SF was classic and refined and I believe the end of the classic sounding era is now, we hear it with the F8 and now GTS.
     
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  3. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
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    Lol yeah the F8 is quiet as a mouse
     
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  4. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
    Austin TX
    https://magazine.ferrari.com/en/cars/2019/03/06/news/ferrari-f8-tributo-inside-story-55153/

    Regarding the F8:

    Marzio Maresi – engine - says: “To fulfil new emissions and noise regulations, we needed to change the exhaust. That meant changing various engine parts and revalidating the engine, driveability and sound.” The only visible changed parts are the new aluminium intake manifold, and exhaust. Mechanical engineer Fontana adds: “we had to achieve the right sound with the new exhaust. We worked for six months together as a team, to create the best sound possible, both inside and outside the cabin.”

    Though not directly mentioned the "new emissions" regulation required the fitment of GPF devices.

    Regarding the Roma:

    https://www.ferrari.com/en-EN/auto/ferrari-roma/share/powertrain/powertrain-focus

    "and the introduction of the Gasoline Particulate Filter to comply with the strictest anti-pollution standards. The closed matrix filter traps particulate matter produced during combustion, and the Ferrari engineers worked hard to optimize it, thus guaranteeing that it would not compromise driving pleasure."

    "By tradition, every single Ferrari engine has its own particular soundtrack that makes it unique. The Ferrari Roma is no exception that rule. The geometry of the entire exhaust line is new, thanks to the elimination of the two rear silencers, which significantly reduces backpressure in the tailpipes; the new geometry for the by-pass valves, machined to an oval shape which reduces exhaust backpressure and improves sound quality; and the proportional continuous and progressive by-pass valve control, depending on the driving situation."


    https://magazine.ferrari.com/en/cars/2019/09/26/news/812-gts-coupe-spider-68398/

    "If you like the sound of a V12 engine, you’ll love the 812 GTS. It’s been designed so that, roof down, it delivers a full symphonic experience, despite the latest emissions rules obliging significant changes to the engine and exhaust. “We worked hard to maintain the same power output as the 812 Superfast – 800cv – whilst also enhancing the sound”, says Leiters, contending that the audial experience has always been one of the key reasons people choose an 812 Superfast."


    I believe that is sufficient evidence that the GPF requires sound engineering innovation including the 812GTS.

    There has not been this much "fuss", from the factory, of what a Ferrari sounds like due to a single impairment, the GPF.
     
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  5. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

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    I’ve driven a Daytona coupe and 275 GTB/4. Never a classic roaster, sorry.
     
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  6. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
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    Maybe this is obvious but did you read the part that they “enhanced the engine sound.”
     
  7. johnsonchris84

    Dec 27, 2017
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    Orlando Florida
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    Christopher Johnson

    This isn’t Ferrari’s fault but they are doing their best and the world will adapt. But the 488 and 488 spider sound the same as does the Pista versions, they are not considered different car lines but same car different roofs. Tailor Made also made a point to tell me the 812 and GTS are different cars when it came to exterior lines, I think it more of a company strategy to differentiate the car because of their sound difference because we lovers can tell which Ferrari is coming down the road and when we see it we can then tell you if the roof moves:) In the end they are all Rari’s we will love but back the my original statement, I just want my gts to sound like my super fast. Is that too much to ask:)
     
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  8. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
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    “We worked hard to maintain the same power output as the 812 Superfast – 800cv – whilst also enhancing the sound”,

    That statement of enhancing the sound is in direct reference to what the sound 'was' with GPF fitment prior to their efforts to enhance the sound.

    "...delivers a full symphonic experience, despite the latest emissions rules obliging significant changes to the engine and exhaust. "

    Please be mindful of all the sound engineering work performed on the F8 and Roma with the very specific reason being the GPF and so it follows with the 812GTS and upcoming 812VS.
     
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  9. johnsonchris84

    Dec 27, 2017
    15
    Orlando Florida
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    Christopher Johnson

    They had to increase the output of the engine to equal the SF because of the GPF, there was a statement when GTS came out that this was the engineers most proud moment to get the needed horsepower in GTS to equal the SF.

    otherwise it would be the 7.512, that’s my statement:)
     
  10. Avia11

    Avia11 Formula Junior
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    Jan 21, 2017
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    I’m missing your point. I just said the 812 GTS sounds epic and you posted a bunch of stuff that says it sounds epic because they enhanced the sound. I agree.

    I just don’t think it’s fair to say the sound is compromised compared to the 812 SF because it isn’t. It’s exactly what a Ferrari V12 roadster should sound like. For those people who say the higher frequencies are missing at higher revs, after driving my 812 GTS I very strongly disagree. My 812 GTS starts screaming at 6500 RPM and doesn’t stop until I shift. What’s different about the sound is a deep bass sound at the lower rev range and mid rev range that carries over into the higher RPMs. When you put the roof down or drop the rear deck it even surpasses the 812 SF.

    when it comes to the 812 VS I don’t know how much of this is going to affect it. Before covid I was told that only 812 VS coupes were going to be made followed approximately 270 812 VS GTS. Idk if that has changed.
     
  11. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
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    Starting with Post 2824:
    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/147587964/

    it was mentioned sound was compromised and not as Ferrari intended, your reply was to challenge that assertion

    my reply was to that --- indicating that the sound was indeed not what Ferrari intended but the best they could do given the GPF requirement, otherwise, the 812GTS engine + exhaust would of been identical to the 812SF, had there not been a GPF requirement it would of saved the factory a lot of money to not change the exhaust setup by adding GPF devices which forced having to re-certify for various country homologation requirements. At no time did engineers at the factory wish to complicate their job by adding GPF, it was done strictly for EU/China emissions compliance.

    Some have commented that after 6000 rpm the pitch of the 812GTS exhaust does not change/increase as noticeably as that of pre-GPF 812SF.

    The factory did the best they could do with the requirements imposed upon them.

    Your enjoyment is a compliment to the factory.

    As for 812VS coupes/spiders I do not believe either will be numbered editions, but there's no knowing that until the factory decides and lets us know...hopefully we will all know before May ...maybe even March.
     
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  12. Solid State

    Solid State F1 Veteran
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    I think what Ferrari is saying is that they did their best to overcome the negative impact to V12 sound due solely to the GPF. It was simply not possible for it to sound the same. The result is unique and the best that they could do. Some will like it and others not because it is different than the familiar V12 soundtrack. The 812 VS will no doubt sound closer but still not the same.
     
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  13. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Full credit to Ferrari for their efforts to integrate the required GPF. However using that specification in markets where GPF is not required surely illustrates their cynical attitude towards those potential clients. The Porsche 911 for example doesn't equip cars with GPF where it is not required. The certified SF coupe drivetrain would easily plugged into the convertible version and simplify future parts replacement as well.
     
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  14. ForeverCar

    ForeverCar Formula Junior

    Jan 20, 2017
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    Don’t you think it’s just a matter of time before all markets get GPFs? I am expecting the next batch of Porsche will get GPFs even for the US market.
     
  15. johnsonchris84

    Dec 27, 2017
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    Christopher Johnson

    But doesn’t that also create a two tier market where USA gets demand from the European market who may see their demand dwindle? Porsche makes over 250k cars a year and logistically an easier task to accomplish over Ferrari’s 10k? I can see Ferrari wanting to maintain 1 car line for their clients and not dueling collectors.
     
  16. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

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    Not really, USA likely never will require and countries where their gasoline has a high sulphur (such as Australia) literally cannot use GPF because they will quickly clog.

    Remember the reason for GPF in EU/China is due to the method of counting the number of particles present rather than volume present (i.e. by weight). And, I believe only GDI (gasoline direct injection) engines create sufficient particulate to require GPF devices.

    https://publications.jrc.ec.europa.eu/repository/handle/JRC117608

    https://www.transportenvironment.org/sites/te/files/publications/2016_10_Gasoline_particulate_emissions_briefing_0.pdf

    Uncontrolled GDI engines typically emit around 10 times more particles (by mass) than PFI engines and more than one-hundred times the number of particles.
     
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  17. ScrappyB

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    McLaren is an even lower volume manufacturer yet some models are supplied with exhaust systems that are tailored to the end market. The 765LT product brief below describes how the exhaust system configuration is unique depending on regional requirements.

    I realize sound and emissions aren’t directly comparable, but it does provide an example of a competitor that accepts the extra effort and production complexity to avoid punishing all markets.
     
  18. ScrappyB

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  19. of2worlds

    of2worlds F1 World Champ
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    Who was it that said "we sweat the details" previously?
     
  20. ScrappyB

    ScrappyB Formula 3

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    Ron Dennis?
     
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  21. Shack

    Shack F1 Rookie
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    Exactly - what nonsense for those that dont require GPF to be forced to accept it. Ferrari is a bespoke manufacturer so whats the issue? If they "have to" use GPF when the cars leave the factory - then allow the dealers to change the cars for customers in geo's that dont have these regulations.
     
  22. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3

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    New cars 2022 (for now) but it would be odd if they encouraged old and noisy polluting cars to be favoured by giving them an infinite free pass. It’s obvious where it all goes : tax revenues will collapse as petrol etc declines and with electric subsidies. They need the money (in the UK road related taxes are about 6pc of government income with 100pc enforcement/recovery). Vehicles will now have the GPS tracking tech in them = road pricing per mile, adjusted for time of day and speed restrictions/automatic ticket issuance. Nobody making policy gives two hoots about the leisure side of driving (that debate is lost) and perhaps 5pc of drivers do and 1pc passionately do. I just drove from London 60 miles West, cameras and road works all the way. They will squeeze the pleasure out slowly, they literally loathe us. The world is not like F Chat.
     
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  23. Scraggy

    Scraggy Formula 3

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    Whether you believe in climate change or not I assume you would like to minimise toxic air particles for minimal inconvenience ? I now realise I am getting very woke as its so obvious to me. Our cars are filthy (as of course are many other things and worse) but removing GPF feels selfish and very Trump.
     
  24. JTSE30

    JTSE30 F1 Rookie

    Oct 1, 2004
    3,242
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    Allow this fact to assist:

    Pre-GPF 812SF, per California Air Board, emits 1 ounce (28g) of particulate matter every 28,000 miles of driving.

    and much more here:

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/posts/146653300/
     
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  25. nads

    nads Formula Junior

    Jun 4, 2008
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    #2850 nads, Nov 30, 2020
    Last edited: Nov 30, 2020
    Motorists are and always have been an easy, cheap and convenient target to appease the green lobby, if politicians were genuinely concerned with environmental issues and health they would have a very different approach to make a tangible difference.
     

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