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812 SF Pricing Question

Discussion in 'F12/812' started by MaranelloAllTheWay, Oct 22, 2023.

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  1. MaranelloAllTheWay

    MaranelloAllTheWay Karting

    Apr 30, 2023
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    #1 MaranelloAllTheWay, Oct 22, 2023
    Can anyone help me find out what were the average retail prices of 812 SF before Covid/price bubble happened? I remember seeing a for sale ad here of one that sold for $289k in 2020, thats almost 30% off of msrp.

    Just trying to find out how much do these cars go for with miles and 2-3 years old in normal times. Now that the prices seem to be going down (I get price drop alerts weekly), I’m trying to determine whether to buy one now vs wait a bit.

    Thanks
     
  2. greyboxer

    greyboxer F1 World Champ

    Dec 8, 2004
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    #2 greyboxer, Oct 23, 2023
    Like any car they always might come down a little more so you can always delay buying for ever !
     
    PTG1 likes this.
  3. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3
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    #3 DZ-96, Oct 23, 2023
    USA, Europe, somewhere else ????

    I can give some input for Europe.

    Daniel
     
  4. MaranelloAllTheWay

    MaranelloAllTheWay Karting

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    #4 MaranelloAllTheWay, Oct 23, 2023
    I’m in USA but happy to hear Europe
     
  5. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3
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    #5 DZ-96, Oct 23, 2023
    Summer 2021, when i started to look for an 812 SF in Germany there were cars with about 10.000 Km under 300.000 €, low Km examples were at around 310.000-350.000 €

    Here 2 examples from July 21.
    At this time you got a 458 Sepciale with 10.000 Km for 290.000 € (Now, hard to get for about 450.000 Km)

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  6. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3
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    #6 DZ-96, Oct 23, 2023
    Autumn 2021, the lower priced cars decreased.
    Price increased a little bit.

    In Oktober i watched 2 cars in Frankfurt
    A red one with 7800 Km and with racing seats, some carbon for 319.900 €
    A red 70 anni one with 3600 Km and with racing seats, no carbon for 329.900 €

    In Stuttgart
    A red one with full racing seats for 369.000 €

    In Cremona Italy
    A red with racing seats, no carbon, 900 Km for 354.000 €

    In Cologne
    An incredible full loaded rosso fuoco, all carbon, 1485 Km for 369.000 € (sticker nearly 430.000 €)

    Here the pics in correct sequence.

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  7. DZ-96

    DZ-96 Formula 3
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    #7 DZ-96, Oct 23, 2023
    cpd1 likes this.
  8. MaranelloAllTheWay

    MaranelloAllTheWay Karting

    Apr 30, 2023
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    #8 MaranelloAllTheWay, Oct 23, 2023
    Thank you, I appreciate it.
     
  9. 350MH83

    350MH83 Formula 3

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    #9 350MH83, Oct 25, 2023
    It looks so much better with the Monza wheels than with the black ones!
     
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  10. Flo400

    Flo400 Formula Junior

    Jun 8, 2011
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    #10 Flo400, Oct 25, 2023
    The wholesale price of a dealer purchasing an 812 SF from you now is below 300k - more like 270-280k for earlier cars. Considering that they want to make around 20k per car the retail prices will rapidly approach 300k.

    Cars for 380k or even 400k will not be moving at all...
     
  11. MaranelloAllTheWay

    MaranelloAllTheWay Karting

    Apr 30, 2023
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    #11 MaranelloAllTheWay, Oct 25, 2023
    280k-300k wholesale? So here I am thinking 20% off msrp is a good deal for 10k miles, but I guess thats why cars havent sold. I should wait for them to drop another 100k? Why arent dealers lowering their prices? Good to know this information, I appreciate it.
     
  12. MaranelloAllTheWay

    MaranelloAllTheWay Karting

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    #12 MaranelloAllTheWay, Oct 25, 2023
    How does one find out about the wholesale prices of these cars? I’m curious how options effect the pricing.
     
  13. mdrums

    mdrums F1 Rookie

    Jun 11, 2006
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    #13 mdrums, Oct 25, 2023
    I was ...still slightly maybe... considering trading my 2019 488 for a 2020 or so 812SF. I'd like one with race seats and with out GPF in the exhaust. I think it was around mid to end of 2020 GPF started showing up here in the USA.

    The 812's that interest me at dealers...I want the extended Ferrari warranty... are all at asking prices of around $400k give or take $5-10K. I kinda gave up shopping as deals I received back are so far fetched it puts me out of the mood to even start negotiations. This car is a want, not a need, like a daily driver...so they can sit and I will continue to enjoy my 488.

    So with all that said...it seems like 812's around 3-8k miles, basic options, dealers still holding pricing and not really working to make a deal happen. Probably these types of 812's can be bought around $385k with an asking price on $395-$405k. I'm not seeing them any less , unless they are 2018 or 2019's with 15k plus miles...then again I gave up searching last month.
     
  14. MaranelloAllTheWay

    MaranelloAllTheWay Karting

    Apr 30, 2023
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    #14 MaranelloAllTheWay, Oct 25, 2023
    Right. To me it looks like these dealers bought these cars at a much higher wholesale price than what the wholesale price is now thinking they’ll appreciate. Market has gone the other direction and now they are holding on to the cars. In my experience, dealers arent very smart people in terms of understanding markets. They are usually quite a bit slow to react and at the end of the day, you have to remember if people who worked at a car dealer were smart about the markets, they’d most certainly not be selling cars.

    The direction of the markets, particularly treasury yields, fed fund rate, the auto loans are all telling me car market is headed for a major correction. If fed keeps these rates where they are, which we all know they will, we are look at a minimum 12 but possibly 18 months of very expensive borrowing period as far as sports cars are concerned. The cost of borrowing $400,000 has gone up by $65,000. So it costs you an “extra” $65,000 now to buy an 812 vs 2020 or 2019. But its not so simple, not only your cost of borrowing is higher but also your investments that were giving you those amazing returns because nasdaq was completely out of control (lol) are no longer giving you those double digit returns.

    Of course we dont borrow for an 812 because we have so much cash laying around as we are all rich affording Ferraris, but there is a saying “its harder to take money from the rich as they didnt become rich by giving money away”. So a $400,000 car 3 years ago would cost you around $150,000-$175,000 less vs it does now because of the market conditions. This is really bad for sellers and great news for buyers. I think if the market continues in this trajectory (which I think even the most optimistic person agrees), these prices will plummet.

    I think these prices are $100,000 above their 2019-2020 levels which is a massive margin. You could buy a car now, drive it for a month and lose $100,000 - not your regular depreciation but more like incorrect valuation of an asset.
     
    Ouds83 likes this.
  15. Flo400

    Flo400 Formula Junior

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    #15 Flo400, Oct 25, 2023
    Discussing it with a dealer lately. Dealers have a quota of new cars to be sold which wasn't too difficult but also a goal for used car sales. However inventory is depreciating quickly right now so the prices they would pay to take a new car as inventory have dropped quite a bit.

    Official asking prices haven't really dropped but if you ask nicely you'll get 50k off. GTSs have dropped to below 500k, around 50k from a year ago.
     
  16. 430jm

    430jm Formula Junior

    Jun 11, 2017
    443
    Atlanta
    #16 430jm, Oct 25, 2023
    Well, EVERYTHING IS DOWN. Yes, 812 and other once hot cars are too. But I look at my stocks, watches, everything else. Thanks Biden.
    But I do not think everything will stay down. Especially Ferraris with new ones starting 100 plus k more.
     
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  17. MaranelloAllTheWay

    MaranelloAllTheWay Karting

    Apr 30, 2023
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    #17 MaranelloAllTheWay, Oct 25, 2023
    I think things will settle down to slightly higher than pre covid prices. I think these current prices are way out of touch with reality.
     
  18. PTG1

    PTG1 Formula Junior

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    #18 PTG1, Oct 27, 2023
    Just call a dealer and say you are thinking of selling and ask the price
    Sent from my SM-S9180 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  19. PTG1

    PTG1 Formula Junior

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    #19 PTG1, Oct 27, 2023
    I changed my 458 spider in June for a 812 SF, I am in the UK and the change cost me £50k. Both cars were loaded with all options so equivalent, the 458 had around 4k miles and the 812 12k miles, the 812 is 2018 pre gpf
    Sent from my SM-S9180 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    mdrums likes this.
  20. mdrums

    mdrums F1 Rookie

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    #20 mdrums, Oct 27, 2023
    That's about $60k US dollars in difference. The is a great deal. My 488GTB, 8,689 miles, no issues, all service at Ferrari and still under warranty and 2yrs free maintenance left ... difference for a 2019-2020 812SF with 5-10k miles difference I got was $100-$120k US dollars. Dealers here low ball the hell out of my car and won't budge on the 812SF. I gave up... have quit looking.
     
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  21. PTG1

    PTG1 Formula Junior

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    #21 PTG1, Oct 27, 2023
    Give it some time and the market should move like the UK and you can pick up a deal [emoji6]
    Sent from my SM-S9180 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
    AD211 likes this.
  22. av12345

    av12345 Rookie
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    #22 av12345, Nov 22, 2024
    Where do people think wholesale prices are now for 812SFs with roughly 5k miles? I’m looking at getting a 2019 that is CPOd for about $360k (original sticker around $430k).
     
  23. gilly6993

    gilly6993 F1 Rookie

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    #23 gilly6993, Nov 25, 2024
    I've been watching the market as I'm looking to move from my Lusso to an 812.....From what I have seen if you find a car in the mid $350K range (give or take) AND you like the spec jump on it....People try to find the best price when at the end of the day the colr/ spec is what you're reminded of every day and the price is long forgotten....
     
  24. av12345

    av12345 Rookie
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    #24 av12345, Nov 25, 2024
    Thanks! Yeah the spec is pretty much spot on so that is very good.

    Also curious what is making you move from the Lusso to the 812?
     
  25. gilly6993

    gilly6993 F1 Rookie

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    #25 gilly6993, Nov 25, 2024
    I was never in love with the Lusso. Only reason I got it was because it had back seats for the kids. Now that one is older and can sit in the front a 2 seater will work. I have a Redeye if I need to have the whole family. Both cars are a third and fourth vehicle. It mihgt not happen until 2025 or 2026 as I'll wait for a spec that I really love.
     
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