80s/90s Maseratis?

It is really a game of parts sourcing (from other then maserati direct). If you can find the parts from other vendors and service it yourself, it should not be that bad.

Expensive, yes, but not terribly so.

(I personally like the QIII from that era)

 

Hi, I have owned several of these cars and I can give you a lot of advice.

Biturbo carburettors (1982-1986): avoid at all costs, even those in perfect condition are really only good as classic cars, using them regularly is just asking for trouble. They were terribly unreliable and not well built except for the late "S" and "425" models which were improved.

Biturbo injection (1987-1993): very reliable and solid cars, but they will have been mistreated by neglectful owners. Only buy the very best unless you like restoration work. Recommended cars:
1) 222 24V 2.8 (279HP, 430Nm torque, absolute monster, the best of all the classic biturbos). Only 377 built, very rare. I know a fully restored one for sale in Switzerland for 16000 Euro. They have catalysts, hence easy to register in any EU country.
2) Racing 24V 2.0 (286HP, 2 litre engine). Italian-market only super-monster, weighs only 1300Kg. 0-100 Km/h in 5.5s. Unfortunately very rare (192 built) but I know of 2 good ones for sale in Italy (around 10000 Euro).
3) 2.24V cat (1992-1994) looks like cars 1 and 2, but has 240HP. Relatively easy to find in Italy and Germany. Worth about 6000 Euro in Italy.
4) 2.24V non-cat (1989-1992). Like 3, but without cats hence 245HP. Over 3000 produced, in Italy there are many from 3000 to 7000 Euro.
5) Karif (1988-1991). Very rare (221 made), look for the early non-cat models with 285HP. Very distinctive car, built on stiff short wheelbase chassis, handles wonderfully, very fast (0-100 Km/h in 4.8s).
6) Spyder: look for the 2.8 models (catalysed with 225HP, or non-cat very rare with 250HP) or for the intercooled 2.0 models (223HP, later 240HP with 24V heads). In 1992 it was restyled to resemble the Shamal at the front, very nice but rare.

Ghibli II (1992-1998): TOTALLY recommended. One of the fastest and most fun Maseratis ever. Was actually faster than the 3200GT on a straight line. Mid-range acceleration in supercar league, easily beats M3 and Ferrari 348. Weak points: useless brakes up to 1994, weak differential until GT version (1995) adopted one similar to Ferrari F355's. Look for 2.0 litre GT (1995-98, 306BHP, 265Km/h top speed), easy to find on Italian and German markets. Tired ones go for 8000 Euro, excellent ones up to 20000 Euro. Also available: 2.8 litre (284BHP but easily tuned to 360BHP) and rare 2.0 litre Cup (330HP, 100 made) - that will cost at least 30000 Euro if you can find one.

COSTS: All biturbos and Ghiblis cost a fortune if they go "bang". Engines must be cared for (good oil, regular servicing, do not rev when cold, etc.). I know of Ghiblis which have reached over 200.000Kms before engine rebuilds. Whatever your budget or the car you want to buy, go for a car from a respected dealer or marque expert, make sure there is a full service file with all documented repairs. Buy original low-mileage cars or alternatively a good idea is to buy mechanically restored cars. A rebuilt Ghibli engine costs about 15000 Euros, but a Ghibli with a zero-miles rebuilt engine not cost more than that, so you get a "free car" with your new engine. Make sure though that the electronic shock absorbers are in order ($$$ to replace, but rebuilt ones are available). Rust is not a problem on post-1990 cars, gearboxes are indestructible, and the interior of full-leather cars is hard wearing (but Alcantara seats on pre-Ghibli cars wear really easily).

Good hunting, and if you need advice/help to find a car just PM me.
Andrea

 

I always have though the Merak is one of the best looking cars from the time(non bumpers)...Engine in a non-SS was a junker! I always imagined a Merak with there 2.5 bi-turbo or a 308 engine etc. Wonder if its possible

 

Maybe he was a car daydreamer like I was in school...ha

 

Unless you want a full time job,

AVOID LIKE THE PLAGUE!!!!

While some enthusiasts will try to convince you otherwise it makes no sense.

All of these cars are cheap to buy. Think about why.

Parts/service is astronomically expensive. They are difficult to work on.

Reliability is mediocre to dismal. The BiTurbo put the company into bankruptcy.

It is possible to have a "nice" car from this period but it's not worth your trouble and money.

The net result is something most Italian car enthusiasts will laugh at (maybe just when you're not around) and you won't be able to sell for anything near what it cost.

This is just my opinion but I've been around since these cars were new.

 

I owned a 97 Ghibli Cup. These are 2.0L cars with 330 ps. I was told that the 2.8L cars use the same block and have problems because the bore spacing is so tight. Here is a great link with lots of details about these cars.
http://www.maserati-indy.co.uk/alfieri00a.htm
I did not have any major issues with reliability but the services were expensive. I used it as my everyday car and sometimes wished for something else. The clutch was an absolute beast and I had leg cramps for the first several months I owned the car. There is not a lot of torque, which makes it difficult to drive fast on deserted roads. You have to keep the revs up really high to have fun. On the track it seemed easier to be in the right gear, I guess because I knew what was coming. I thought that it was a little difficult to parallel park and not curb the wheels, and the car is wider than you’d think making driving on narrow European roads difficult. While I always loved the look of the car, I think that an M3 would have been a better fit for me.
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Marek,

2NA is way overboard. Listen to more resonable views. I'm talking about the Ghibli.

You do have to be aware that parts are very expensive, service is expensive and parts are hard to find in some cases. So it affordable to buy, but expensive to run.

The Bi turbo and Ghibli II are from the De Tomaso era, and the company was in financial trouble from the 50's on. It was only stabilised financially by Ferrari in the late 90's. The Ghibli is an evolution of the Bi Turbo, a very different car, and a good car.

Hunt out writings by Ian Fraser of Car who was a fan and I think Andrew Frankel of Autocar.

Mine was very reliable. Other than routine maint., only replaced the clutch (expensive), and it was not heavy at all. The gearbox is quite baulky, but no real problem. Was very reliable, though I took care of it. Never gave a hint of breaking down, not starting, anything like that. Never any rust. Good solid car.

Mine was 2.0L 306 HP. When the turbos came on around 3000rpm the sound became furious and the car accelerated hugely. I found mine huge fun on twisty roads, very good quick steering, but in the wet it was certainly a handfull. In the dry, it was safe FUN, tail out everywhere, unlike say an E36 M3.

The looks are an acquired taste it would seem, but I loved it, understated but good proportions and subtley aggressive. One thing which you might not expect is it is a good motorway cruiser, quiet and smooth riding unlike many German performance cars I've had.

Quote 2NA "The net result is something most Italian car enthusiasts will laugh at (maybe just when you're not around)". Thats just plain uninformed bull****. The Ghibli is a very different car to the Bi Turbo.

Buy one if you are prepared for the costs, and you like them. But remember that you can get as good a handling experience from an E30 M3 BMW without the associated costs. If you do buy one the most important advice is buy the best. 5000 extra on the purchase may seem cheap later. Check this out http://www.maseratighibli.co.uk/

I am going to post the Autocar test of the 2.0L 330 bhp Ghibli here http://www.44oldcushendunroad.com/ghibli.html

Regards,
David
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Go ahead and buy one.

Come back in 2 years, let us know how it turned out.

I stand by what I wrote.

 

Tim,

As a technician, obviously you would have more knowledge about these cars than I. However, your profile says Twin Cities and so I wonder what your experience is with the newer cars that were never available in the States, like all of the Ghibli line. If I am correct, the last year that Maserati sold the BiTurbo based cars here was 1991. I have also heard that the 1980s era BiTurbos are horrible cars, but that was not my experience with my 1997, a car built almost 10 years later. My Ghibli was my only car for almost three years and I drove it in all conditions, commuting, rain, snow, and the Nurburgring. I’m not suggesting that Marek, buy one, just that the newer cars were not as bad as the older vintage BiTurbo badged vehicles. Do you know of some issues with the older cars that persisted until the later ones?

Thanks

 

I owned 3 biTurbos (from different years) over an 18 year period. Always enjoyed them. Yes, I spent time working on them (they are Italian).
Buy them, spend money (up to your comfort zone), and enjoy them.

If you want an investment, buy a painting....

 

...if you are thinking about maintenance costs with a Ferrari or Maserati you are not ready for them! Believe me!

Ciao!
Walter

 

...my words since many moons!

Ciao!
Walter

 

It's true that Maserati left the US around the same time as Alfa and Fiat. My personal experience is with cars before that.

The problems with the BiTurbo weren't all that different from similar cars (fit & finish, electrical, clutch, gearbox, oil leaks, coolant leaks, fuel leaks and vacuum leaks, fuel and ignition gremlins, spun bearings and the occasional timing belt failure to name a few. The real problem was that it never seemed to end. The cars seemed to be falling down around you and it was difficult to get the customer to pay a bill and get the car home before the next round of trouble.

The later cars may be different but there is still that clutch problem and the awful handling thing.

The cars were fun if not scary. When they hit 3500 rpms it's as if 6 more cylinders came online. Starting off it's easy to stall the engine, hardly any torque at low rpms.

None of this is personal, I've never owned one but I've fixed a few. I know of at least one that has been with the original owner since new. He loves the car and has had very little trouble with it. Mostly they seem to be "project cars".

Parts are just as expensive as Ferrari (sometimes more) and quarters are cramped under the hood (you can spend a lot of time there). It's been a long time since I did an oil change but I seem to recall that removing the filter was like trying to solve Rubik's Cube in the dark.

In case you think that my opinions are isolated, watch the video.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkO8y3AxRps

 

Marek,

Here is the article I put up for you http://www.44oldcushendunroad.com/ghibli.html

2NA
save for clutch at 30,000 miles I never had a mechanical problem
the car seemed very well built and nothing broke or "fell down around me"
Clutch on mine was fine,fitted a 3200 clutch at replacement and it was reasonably light
Awful Handling : Autocar said 4 out of 5, "fabulous steering, but high speed body control could be improved". Harry Metcalfe of Evo ran one for several years and the writers at Evo loved it.
The cars are fun at all times at not scary unless its wet. In the wet you must be very careful. Of the fast cars I have owned the Ghibli was the most fun on the road in that you didn't need to be on a track to get the car sliding controllably at road speeds. Most powerful cars more than 10 years old need caution in the wet.
I think you jumped the gun as your opinions relate to the Bi Turbo. The Ghibli is very developed and many people enjoy them.

Your opinions on parts price and availability are correct and any potential owner should know that going in.

That awful handling gave me some of my favorite drives.

Marek,
The Cup model is very expensive but you should search out the 2.0 306 bhp version as its slightly more like the Cup in engine delivery than the 2.8. That said you should buy on condition and if you come across a mint 2.8 it will be a better buy than an average 2.0.
There is a good Classic & Sports Car article circa 2004/2005 about the car which I couldn't find.
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In my opionion yes. The Ghibli is a Bi Turbo with lots of faults ironed out. It is still flawed, but its a true drivers car.

Another thing I forgot to say : the Ghibli loves twisty country roads but if the surface is not relativly smooth, it will ground at the front a LOT.

 

that is one great article, the Ghibli was truly a masterpiece, especially the latter Cups, screw the M3

 

I have a ghibli and I have some friends with ghiblis and many other italian exotica. They are driver's cars so if you care about driving and feeling what you are doing,these are awesome cars. They are very different to an M3 (just to mention a similar layout and perfeormnace car) The M3 is a great performance car, reliable, cheaper to buy and above all, cheaper to run. They are very refined cars if you compare with a ghibli but... Man, the ghibli IS an awesome car to drive, you are going to enjoy every time. Talking about glamour and exclusivity the ghibli is just a bargain.

But... they are expensive to run, they are no daily cars at least not to the same degree a porsche or bmw are, and they are quite reliable if you think of them as performance cars, so you can NOT neglect manteinance or you will end with a nasty surprise. If you really care about reliability, Ghiblis post 1995 (GT's and Cup's) are the best.
Don´t be mad about check engine warnings and so, ferrari boys get them often (pre-360 cars) and this do not prevent them to be the happiest guys out there with their toys...
There are lots of cheap maseratis out there, but like everything in life, there is always a reason to ask half or twice the price for the same car and you will get ferrari costs to repair them...
They are not high volume cars, so do not expect perfection in the interiors, they were hand made.

I think that not everybody is made for these cars. They are italian cars and, like other italian cars of that period(alfa, lancia,ferrari...) they deliver awesome experiences. If you are looking for reliability and rocket proof cars go german but you only live once...

Hope this help a little bit more to everybody thinking in buying a nice maserati...

 

Well said Stelvio, if you have the connaisence and funds, nothing rewards like an Italian car!