79 400GT in TX - comments? | Page 2 | FerrariChat

79 400GT in TX - comments?

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by Faber, Feb 25, 2013.

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  1. willrace

    willrace Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 21, 2006
    32,908
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    Quite true - Mine is strictly a nice weather car, never driven in the rain (originally a Malibu car), the soft top has been up four times. Definitely a different experience from the 400.

    Hey now!! Been a Guinness Extra Stout nut since I was about 19, much to the chagrin of friends who wanted to grab one of my beers out of the fridge.

    Couldn't recall the interior color, but haven't forgotten that one - It was gorgeous. Unless your wife is not the cute blond in the first pic, but instead is a dark-haired dude, you have nothing to worry about :p
     
  2. Faber

    Faber Formula Junior

    May 5, 2011
    954
    TX Hill Country
    Full Name:
    Tom G.
    Couldn't recall the interior color, but haven't forgotten that one - It was gorgeous. Unless your wife is not the cute blond in the first pic, but instead is a dark-haired dude, you have nothing to worry about :p[/QUOTE]

    Wigs...damn dark-haired wigs!

    (-*

    ps: Agree regarding MB: 400GT comparison.Experienced that y-day.
     
  3. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2003
    1,652
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    your going to re-restore the white 400?
     
  4. willrace

    willrace Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 21, 2006
    32,908
    North Tay-has
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    Kurt
    Absolutely - You've seen it. It should be going in early/mid April to do it properly. There will be a documentation thread as promised, since so few are redone as comprehensively as this one will be again.

    Back to Faber's new member of his family ! ! !........and possibly some of those departing. :D
     
  5. Rock

    Rock Formula 3

    Nov 9, 2003
    1,652
    Toronto, Canada
    Full Name:
    Rocco
    glad to see you haven't given up. good luck with the car
     
  6. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
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    Russell Schacter
    Really pleased to hear this. Good luck with resto #2
     
  7. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Jan 3, 2006
    2,168
    Tucson, AZ.
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    Fritz Ficke
    I live in AZ. and I did not drive my 400I in the summer, you will invariably get stuck in traffic and watch the needle creep up to dangerous levels and blow coolant out. I used it in the winter only.
    I eventually brought a aluminum rad. which helped a lot on the freeway but I still had heating in traffic, next step would have been 'Spal' fans to replace the British sourced fans that are OEM.
    I believe you can make these cars drive in the summer in the desert but they will not as they left the factory.
    As for the valve guides, they are relatively short and wear out in about 50,000 miles but you will need a new timing chain by that time any ways. I believe the factory recommends a valve job in 40,000 miles.
    These are wonderful cars, nothing sounds better and the driven position really suited me.
    Good luck.
     
  8. Faber

    Faber Formula Junior

    May 5, 2011
    954
    TX Hill Country
    Full Name:
    Tom G.
    Thanks for the insights Fritz!
     
  9. willrace

    willrace Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    Oct 21, 2006
    32,908
    North Tay-has
    Full Name:
    Kurt
    Thought about something last night as I was drifting off - We may have 3 of those few carbed 5-speeds right here in the area.
    - The dark blue '78 of which I've got reference pics for #22579's Resto 2 - Return To Sexy!!!! (sorry, silliness hits me)
    - Faber's light blue '79
    - my white (formerly resale red, originally silver) '78​

    We're getting quite the collection of these 'round these parts :D

    btw - took mine out late yesterday for "maintenance driving" in low 80s; looks like I'll be getting that radiator and fan set. Any other Texans up for a group buy?
     
  10. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    8,887
    Central NJ
    Faber,

    Based on your additional description, the car sounds quite good. $10k may be an adequate initial investment to keep it a decent driver. However, one thing you wrote got my attention: stretching for a 328 or possibly a 365 GTC/4. My advice is as follows: drive all three, figure out what you want, then buy. the 400 is a cruiser, the 365 GTC/4 is similar but a touch more sporting (the drivetrains are basically the same), the 328 is MUCH more sporting. Also, the 328 has much lower running costs - my guess is that a good 328 will have half or less maintenance costs compared to the other two. Proper maintenance of a 400 will be higher than that of a 250 California Spider! This is not important for short term ownership but becomes very significant over time. If you keep it for a while, the 328 will be cheaper and easier to live with than either V-12.

    Finally, the 328 is the easiest to re-sell.

    Please understand, I am in no way trying to discourage you from your purchase. I am just trying to make sure you go in with your eyes wide open. If it were me, I'd buy the 400, but this is because I like Ferrari V-12 2+2s.

    I wish you the best of luck with whatever you decide.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  11. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Sep 5, 2002
    31,629
    MA
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    John
    Art, good points but I would differ on the following:

    1. The 328 may be somewhat cheaper to maintain than a 400i because it has 8 instead of 12 cylinders but the 328 also has rubber camshaft belts that need changing every 5 years/30,000 miles whichever comes first. That one service alone is a minimum of $3K.

    2. Not sure how the maintenance costs of a 400i could ever possibly be higher than a 250GT California Spider. Similar maybe but higher? On what basis do you draw that conclusion?
     
  12. Fritz Ficke

    Fritz Ficke Formula 3
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    Jan 3, 2006
    2,168
    Tucson, AZ.
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    Fritz Ficke
    I dropped my OEM radiator from my 1981 400I off at 'Ron Davis' radiators in Glendale AZ. They made an aluminum one for me and all the info is in their computer so they said the next guy would just have to call and they can make one for them. Made the car run much cooler on the freeway.
    'Spal' makes very efficient fans that will move a lot more air than the original and are used a lot here in the desert environment to replace OEM equipment that is not up to what we have to deal with.
    Those two would solve 90% of the heating issues.
    The one other thing is I was climbing a long mountain run, really pushing it, with ambient air temp at about 105 F and I started to boil the fuel and had to back out of it. That was an extreme situation and I would not worry about the fuel injection for most operation.
     
  13. aidanparte

    aidanparte Formula 3

    Jul 18, 2004
    1,222
    That is really helpful to know, thanks. Which Spal fans are you using and do they fit the standard brackets?

    Aidan
     
  14. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
    1,206
    San Leandro, CA
    Full Name:
    Bill Henley
    The 328 is also the one that is still depreciating. Actually, the 400i might also still be depreciating, but the exposure is negligible when the purchase price is in the $20K's, vs. the $40s and $50s.
     
  15. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
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    Russell Schacter
    All of these cars are potential money pits - drive all the models that appeal to you, choose the one that fits you best and buy it.

    If you buy based on anything other than emotion I doubt that you'd buy a 400 as these are slightly "off beat" cars which either hit the spot for you or don't.

    For me it was a no-brainer, wanted one for ages, found one, bought it. Wasn't interested in any other Ferrari's really, didn't care about the running costs (if it all went badly wrong I just wouldn't be able to drive it until I'd saved up the money to fix it) - I just knew I had to have one.

    So far I'm delighted with the car, have dealt with any issues which have arisen (which I've got to say in the grand scheme of things have been pretty trivial and minor so far) and I smile every time I get it out of the garage.

    I love the understated side of the 400 series - most people don't notice it but those that do always comment very positively. The 67 Mustang and 53 Cadillac Convertible I own attract attention all of the time which is nice but this has a different feel altogether - maybe it's the Ferrari experience, I don't know but I've never owned anything before which I feel so passionate about or connected to. Plus the guys on the forum make if feel like a kind of a family which is something I enjoy.

    These cars are a "heart" buy, not a "head" buy that's for sure !
     
  16. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
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    Russell Schacter
    That said, it'll probably commit suicide tomorrow and I'll regret buying it buy hey - that's life !!
     
  17. Faber

    Faber Formula Junior

    May 5, 2011
    954
    TX Hill Country
    Full Name:
    Tom G.
    Thanks for all the informative comments & insights - I've learned quite a bit lurking on F-Chat and this thread in particular - the above sentiments kinda nail it for me. Off beat indeed. Will advise on going forward w/ this purchase as soon as I sell one more of the 4 for sale - the GT owner desires the 560SL for my asking price; 81 300D, 85 300D Turbo & 85 500SL are still in play). Thanks again for all the info & informed opinions above.
     
  18. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
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    Russell Schacter
    Try not to wait too long, ok? If you miss this one another manual carbed car won't be parked around the corner.
     
  19. Faber

    Faber Formula Junior

    May 5, 2011
    954
    TX Hill Country
    Full Name:
    Tom G.
    Yep, Thanks.
     
  20. ArtS

    ArtS F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Nov 11, 2003
    8,887
    Central NJ
    John,

    Faber mentioned possibly holding off and saving up for a 328, to me this implied that he would prefer a 328 - If this is the case, he may be disappointed in a 400. The 400 is a very different animal!

    Regarding your other points:

    1. The 328 is cheaper to maintain because it has fewer cylinders, and each of those cylinders and many of the other bits are cheaper because the 328 had much higher production volume. Also: Bosch FI vs. 6 2 barrel, side draft webbers, 2 AC systems, this 400 is 10 years older than a 328 which means most or all of the rubber that has not yet been replaced will be coming to the end of its life, etc. To me, timing belts on a 328 are a known quantity and no big deal.

    2. a 400 is a much more complex car than a 250 cal spider! Engine: 4 cams vs. 2, 6 SIDE DRAFT carbs vs 3 downdrafts; Interior: 4 seats means more leather, climate contol - 400 has a complex system, Cal spider does not have anything; 400 has a more complex body and a more complex suspension, etc. If you can maintain a 400, a 250 Cal Spider is a snap once you get past the purchase price :D ;)

    Bill, I doubt either will depreciate much from here.

    Regards,

    Art S.
     
  21. MBFerrari

    MBFerrari F1 Veteran

    Jul 2, 2008
    6,057
    NoVA
    Full Name:
    Matt B
    This is a very well written post. These cars are all potential money pits, but keep in mind that from the mechanics with whom I have opined I have learned that a badly maintained 355 or neglected 400 can be insanely expensive.

    Now, because I am somewhat of a Ferrari nut I might actually buy this car if I were you going in eyes wide open that you may spend your life savings on it and if you can't do that both mentally and financially, don't.

    I have driven 400's and I love them but they are VERY different from a 328 in just about every way. So if you want one or the other, ask yourself what you want because they are on opposite ends of the spectrum as far as how they feel and drive.
    MB
     
  22. Faber

    Faber Formula Junior

    May 5, 2011
    954
    TX Hill Country
    Full Name:
    Tom G.
    Thank ArtS & MB Ferrari - Great points - Btw, I know two Ferrari mechanics who know the car well and vouch for it. Common advice: "Don't let it sit, drive it!" - Additionally, one offered that the big threat w/ these is the current gasoline compositions - he mentioned some who put Av-gas ($10/gal?) in their older Ferraris. Ha. Thanks again - I still agree w/ Tractor's view. IMO it's a great looking, understated car & unique to boot. Oh, and potentially hazardous to my health if my Bride thinks I'm robbing Grandkids' future...(-*
     
  23. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
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    Russell Schacter
    #48 rustytractor, Mar 7, 2013
    Last edited: Mar 7, 2013
    It's not you that'll be doing the robbing.... it's all the suppliers that you will grow to know and hate !

    Today I parted with almost £300 for a set of plug wires from Superformance (and that's after a discount and without the Vat - should have come to £360). Yeah, I know I could have got a cheaper set but these are original red colour and spec, have the white heat shield and include the eyelet guides preinstalled so I thought what the hell and treated myself to make up for my 7 series being stolen.
     
  24. rustytractor

    rustytractor Formula 3

    Mar 25, 2012
    1,078
    London
    Full Name:
    Russell Schacter
    Anyway - leave the car to the grand kids in your will. By the time you depart this mortal coil the 400 will be a great legacy and will be worth a fortune a by then. You'll be able to haunt your wife and say "told you so" repeatedly in a ghostly whisper !
     
  25. Faber

    Faber Formula Junior

    May 5, 2011
    954
    TX Hill Country
    Full Name:
    Tom G.
    LOL...so true, but I've already failed to convince & persuade with that course of action.
     

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