‘62 GTO 3765 to be auctioned at Sotheby’s NYC November 13. | FerrariChat

‘62 GTO 3765 to be auctioned at Sotheby’s NYC November 13.

Discussion in 'Vintage Ferrari Market' started by 180 Out, Aug 18, 2023.

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What do you think the Sotheby's "330 LM / 250 GTO" will high bid at (USD)?

Poll closed Nov 12, 2023.
  1. < $20M

    1 vote(s)
    2.0%
  2. $20-29M

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  3. $30-39M

    3 vote(s)
    6.1%
  4. $40-49M

    13 vote(s)
    26.5%
  5. $50-59M

    6 vote(s)
    12.2%
  6. $60-69M

    14 vote(s)
    28.6%
  7. $70-79M

    6 vote(s)
    12.2%
  8. $80-89M

    3 vote(s)
    6.1%
  9. $90-99M

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  10. > $100M

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  11. No Clue

    3 vote(s)
    6.1%
  1. 180 Out

    180 Out Formula 3

    Jan 4, 2012
    1,271
    San Leandro, CA
    Full Name:
    Bill Henley
    Here's a link. I would love to see some knowledgeable chat about this car. For once an auction house is not overstating the case, when they describe this as a "once in a generation" opportunity. In an email Sotheby's also describes the car as "The only factory-owned Series I GTO raced by the Scuderia Ferrari." Question: Why is the car described as "330 LM / 250 GTO"? Does this mean the original engine has been swapped out for a 4-liter?

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    BJK, readplays and ivo73 like this.
  2. miurasv

    miurasv F1 World Champ

    Nov 19, 2008
    10,567
    Cardiff, UK
    Full Name:
    Steven Robertson
    The original 4 litre engine was swapped by the Ferrari Service Dep't for a 250 engine from #0796. Also the the 4 speed gearbox was swapped for a 5 speed 250 GTO gearbox.
     
    BJK, roma1280, Sam White and 3 others like this.
  3. readplays

    readplays F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,583
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    Hi Bill,
    3765 LM is a unique, special and fascinating one.
    I’ve always felt it’s been a bit under the radar.
    Like the car I see as its brethren, 330 TRi LM 0808, 3765 LM was born as a 4-liter prototype factory competition car for the 1962 season. Dyke Ridgely has seen the original build sheets and shared that the chassis is a unique tipo. The model designation is 330 LM.
    That said, when the SF sold the car on to a privateer in 1963, they removed the 4-liter engine and fitted it with a 3-liter with the engine number 0796TR (I don’t know the numero interno). This is the engine the car carries to this day. The seller/ long term owner undertook a restoration at Shelton Ferrari more than 30 years ago. As part of those efforts, he sourced a tipo 163 (4-liter block) from Paul P. and built and fitted that engine for a time in the 90’s before reinstalling the factory-fitted aforementioned 0796TR. Which brings us back to 1963: when Ferrari sold the car with its second factory engine, a 3-liter, they then ‘made’ the 330 LM a 250 GTO. Or a 250 LM ;). I think as someone skilled at parsing things, you can see the dilemma of exactitude I present- what do we call it then and now? A very special car. Full disclosure- I met the seller in the late 80’s and became friends. I’ve had the great pleasure of being driven in and driving, albeit briefly, this magical unicorn in the 90’s. I have no financial interest whatsoever in the sale. Only the curiosity that many others have about where the sale numbers go.

    EDIT: I forgot to mention the gearbox. Thanks to Steve R. for including that piece of the story. -Dave
     
    Flash355, imahorse, BJK and 11 others like this.
  4. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    I saw the car while it was at Shelton’s all those years ago. My friend Al Roberts did much of the work on it. If I’m not mistaken the owner had a McLaren F1 there, too, or was that someone else?

    I wonder if the auction will be public or private as for the Ulenhaut coupe.
     
    ryalex and readplays like this.
  5. 250boano

    250boano Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2022
    450
    Europe
    Full Name:
    DD
    What is the likely impact of all of this swapping and changing?

    Is this likely to be at the higher or lower end of transacted prices?
     
  6. readplays

    readplays F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,583
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    Someone else. He did have an M8F Can Am car though.
     
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  7. readplays

    readplays F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,583
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    Purpose built by the factory as a prototype. Engine and gearbox changed by the factory at point of sale so the customer is getting a GTO and not something they could crush the factory team with :D.
    I would say no change in value or an uptick in value based on that unique history. All oroginal, factory built.
    Just my opinion.
    An important thing to keep in mind is that race cars can be development test beds that are evolved during their factory life. Par for the course.
    Road cars are a different animal.
     
    375+ and Jack-the-lad like this.
  8. 250boano

    250boano Formula Junior

    Apr 27, 2022
    450
    Europe
    Full Name:
    DD
    Immediately I was thinking this could go upwards based on the fascinating factory history - I am really excited to see this auction!
     
    readplays likes this.
  9. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    13,409
    Excellent Dave, thank you.
     
    readplays likes this.
  10. readplays

    readplays F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,583
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    My pleasure Bruce. Thanks to the generosity of the owner who saw the enthusiasm of a then-college kid, I got to have some really cool experiences and learn a lot. Heck, I even got to meet (US) Ferrrari royalty when they visited; Fred Leydorf and Dave Cummins. Even Dyke (@DWR46) and Sue. :cool:
     
    stevenwk, 180 Out and 375+ like this.
  11. readplays

    readplays F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,583
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    If anyone wants to add something really cool to this thread, all that’s required is an old collection of Car & Driver magazine and a little time.
    Car & Driver, 1985. Not sure of the issue. Back page of the magazine was a one page column written by Patrick Bedard. Bedard write a column entitled Attire Failure when the owner bought this car. In it they describe the philosophy required to buy an expensive car and (still) use it. A fun read if anyone can find and post it.
     
  12. Jeff Kennedy

    Jeff Kennedy F1 Veteran
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 16, 2007
    6,815
    Edwardsville, IL
    Full Name:
    Jeff Kennedy
    Car spent some time in St. Louis with Jack Reutter. His son Cliff has kept memorabilia about it and other of his dads cars.
     
    ryalex and readplays like this.
  13. 375+

    375+ F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Dec 28, 2005
    13,409
    I thought that Brock Yates wrote about the sale(and quoted the owner) when the Ferrari market took off. Perhaps I'm thinking of Bedard?
     
    readplays likes this.
  14. readplays

    readplays F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,583
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    Definitely Pat.
    Also Csaba Csere did a road test feature on owner’s plexi headlight Rosso Rubino Daytona.
    I believe Brock was their editor back then.
     
    375+ likes this.
  15. DWR46

    DWR46 Formula 3
    Honorary

    Jun 19, 2012
    2,025
    Dave: I am humbled, but appreciative.
     
    ryalex and readplays like this.
  16. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    There’s an article about 3765LM in today’s issue of The Wall Street Journal. Of course it’s written for a general audience, but still worth reading if you see a copy somewhere.
     
    readplays likes this.
  17. Jack-the-lad

    Jack-the-lad Seven Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    BJK, ryalex, Lusso123 and 3 others like this.
  18. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 11, 2004
    2,745
    The long way home
    For those without a subscription (or the paper in hand):

     
    DennisForza, BJK, swift53 and 3 others like this.
  19. Buchpilot

    Buchpilot Formula Junior

    Sep 3, 2021
    632
    Germany
    Full Name:
    Sven
    Nobody will pay 60 million! Fact is, that in recent months there has been one disappointing auction after another. Why? Because the high-net-worth individuals suffered heavy losses at the equity markets and are facing negative performances in their portfolios. As at the beginning of the nineties or after Lehman, they are holding on in hope that markets will go up again and their portfolios will turn positive. To stay solvent in the meantime, they have to keep their purses closed.
     
  20. TheMayor

    TheMayor Ten Time F1 World Champ
    Rossa Subscribed

    Feb 11, 2008
    104,822
    Vegas baby
    You only need 2 people on earth. Plenty of those around with 60 million in cash.
     
  21. amenasce

    amenasce Three Time F1 World Champ
    Silver Subscribed

    Oct 17, 2001
    34,181
    Full Name:
    Joe Mansion
    She used to come to Cavallino track days no?
     
  22. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    4,651
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Who was the last/longtime owner?
     
  23. readplays

    readplays F1 Rookie

    Aug 22, 2008
    2,583
    New York City
    Full Name:
    Dave Powers
    Seller has been owner since 1985. Not listing here for privacy reasons but barchetta has the correct name listed.
     
    ryalex likes this.
  24. merstheman

    merstheman F1 Rookie

    Apr 13, 2007
    4,651
    São Paulo, Brazil
    Full Name:
    Mario
    Thanks.

    Certainly under the radar. And it's interesting to me Sotheby's is selling it with their fine art auctions instead of car auctions. Really shows how much they believe in it.
     
    carguyjohn350 and readplays like this.
  25. Prancing 12

    Prancing 12 F1 Rookie
    Silver Subscribed

    May 11, 2004
    2,745
    The long way home
    That strategy has worked well for them in the past... When they sold Schumacher's F2001 at the same Contemporary Art Sale in 2017, it hammered at $6.7mm, against an estimate of $4.0 - 5.5!
     
    SCFerrari likes this.

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