612 CPO | FerrariChat

612 CPO

Discussion in '612/599' started by cls, Dec 26, 2013.

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  1. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
    Los Angeles/Montreal
    Full Name:
    Chris
    So I purchased a 2005 612 CPO from a dealer out of state. The car was shipped, took a few weeks, went into storage because I was remodeling, another month or so. When I got it out of storage, on the first drive, the AC started blowing only hot air, I took it to the local dealer who found a bad battery.
    I drove it two or three more times, noticed what might be a leak from the front, didn't investigate until next time I parked it in a different spot and saw the same spotting underneath so back to the dealer.
    I have now owned the car for about 5 months and driven it 5-6 times. Here's what the dealer found:
    service due, brake fluid bad, leaking PS fluid and contaminated fluid, old belts, 5 year old tires (but no cracking) 20% clutch, 10% and 15% brake pads. I also BTW replaced worn cracked wiper blades (no big deal.)
    Should I go back to the original dealer with this? I ate the battery cost and had them install a tender (the one that came with the car was "incompatible.") I now have another $3k bill for items it seems like should have come up in a CPO not to mention I need to do the clutch, brakes, and tires soon...
     
  2. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,897
    Wyoming
    which extended warranty did it come with? Should only be PowerTrain based on age?

    Did you get a copy of the inspection they performed to certify it?

    What did the selling dealer say regarding fluids and service status? Brake wear? Clutch wear?

    I can't imagine buying a Ferrari without knowing these things at time of purchase...

    Hard to say what to do with the info you gave.
     
  3. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 6, 2010
    24,851
    Northern Virginia
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    Bob
    Holy crap. If you have any recourse at all, I'd take it. But I'd be pretty worried about the entire car if the previous owner wasn't even doing brake service. Changing the brake fluid annually is not optional. That's dangerous. Considering what a clutch service can encompass, and a major service, and a rack rebuild, damn man.
     
  4. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
    Los Angeles/Montreal
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    Chris
    Yes, the warranty is powertrain only.
    A CPO inspection is a checklist certifying that these things are checked and in good condition, besides compression test (included) and battery test (not included) wear on items is not noted, it's either x approved, or x rectified.
    Technically, items like the clutch, tires and brakes pass inspection because they have life in them, but the dealer seems to have done the bare minimum, or just checked things off that they may never have inspected.
    The idea of a CPO (at least as presented by Ferrari) is that you receive a car that needs nothing, buy with confidence. That doesn't seem to be the dealer's idea of CPO though.
     
  5. forgeahead

    forgeahead F1 Rookie
    Owner

    Sep 16, 2008
    4,408
    Rocky Mount, NC
    Full Name:
    Ray
    Hmmmmm. I would have a heart to heart conversation with the earlier GM now.
     
  6. AndrewJM

    AndrewJM Formula Junior

    Jun 18, 2012
    383
    Norfolk, VA
    Just so we can have an idea of what dealers to avoid, would you mind mentioning where you bought the car from?

    I'd certainly contact them about this. When we got our CPO 612, the cam belts and all fluids were changed. Clutch had 11% wear. Everything was made as perfect as possible. I'd expect a CPO car to be held to higher standards than having 20% clutch life, 15% brake pad, etc.
     
  7. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,897
    Wyoming
    I'm familiar with the inspection form, it usually shows the percentages for clutch, brakes and tires (in tread depth). Did you get that info at the time of purchase?




    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
     
  8. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
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    Chris
    No, just the checklist.
     
  9. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
    Los Angeles/Montreal
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    Chris
    I'd like to hear both sides of the story before posting that info.
     
  10. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,897
    Wyoming
    You may want to check the laws in the relevant state(s) regarding sale of used cars with old/high wear tires and brake pads...I believe in some states a dealer can't sell a car with a defined level of wear in those items. It may help you gain some leverage its the selling dealer if it comes to that...
     
  11. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,897
    Wyoming
    Weird, the checklist had no comments by the tech? That is worrying. All of the ones I've seen had hand written comments and information on the wear and/or state of some of the items being inspected.
     
  12. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
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    Chris
    The final page is signed and dated and reads (in brief)

    Inspection list:
    1. Fulfillment of regular ordinary maintenance check-ups...
    2. Absence of any fluid leaks...
    3. No errors or malfunctions...
    4. Vehicle conformity...
    5. Presence of spare key...

    Engine:
    measurement of cylinder compression...
    emission control

    Transmission:
    gearbox working correctly
    no noise from gearbox
    clutch and controls working correctly
    condition of axle shafts and their casings and joints.

    The only comment on the inspection list is "front bumper - scuffs on bottom"
     
  13. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
    7,348
    Weston, MA
    Full Name:
    Paul
    That seems like a very perfunctory inspection of the vehicle. I'm guessing you didn't have an independent PPI done by a professional?
     
  14. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
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    Chris
    No, no PPI. It seemed the CPO should make that redundant.
     
  15. vvassallo

    vvassallo F1 Veteran
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    Aug 4, 2006
    8,281
    Palos Verdes
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    Vince V
    Speak with the selling dealer and let them know your dissatisfaction with your experience. It might get you some goodwill work/parts. Saying nothing gets you just that in return. If they ignore you, let them know you have friends and they will hear of your experience. My hope is that you can leverage something out of them. Just don't overplay your hand. GL and post your results.
     
  16. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 6, 2010
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    Mention the forums.

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  17. Nospinzone

    Nospinzone F1 Veteran

    Jul 1, 2013
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    clutch and controls working correctly

    You know, the more I look at that report, the more upsetting it is to me. Clearly they had to know the amount of clutch life remaining, to simply say it is working correctly is really deceptive.

    The time between the time you bought it and now could account for the aging of the brake fluid, but does not account for their statement that there were no leaks.

    I second vvassallo's comments. You need to speak to them firmly, but professionally and let them know this is not acceptable and you will not go away quietly.

    BTW, how many miles on this car, and were the timing belts ever done?
     
  18. Entropy

    Entropy Formula 3
    Owner

    Jul 10, 2008
    2,149
    Congrats on the car and sorry to hear about the frustrations.

    QUESTION - you indicated this was a "CPO" car; my understanding is that CPO cars come with a 12 month warranty, which provides more coverage than the Power extended warranty.

    I'm unsure if CPO applies to 8 year old cars, but IF your car was sold from an official dealer as a CPO, I'd double-check the CPO coverage. Otherwise sounds like you car had the Power coverage, which is great....for stuff that's covered.

    Quick web search turned this up from Ferrari's website - unsure if it applies to your case, but hope everything works out

    A Ferrari Approved Certified Pre-
    Owned vehicle has the reassuring
    benefit of a 12-month Ferrari
    coverage. This covers the cost of
    most parts and labor for major
    repairs in the unlikely event that
    a mechanical or electrical failure
    occurs.
    Other than for routine service items
    such as tires, brake pads and discs,
    or parts that require replacement
    due to normal wear or tear, a Ferrari
    Approved Certified Pre-Owned
    vehicle has an unlimited mileage,
    minimum one year coverage. This
    covers the breakdown and repair
    costs (excluding wear and tear) for
    both parts and labor.
    With that comes the added
    confidence of knowing that
    any repair work will be expertly
    completed by Ferrari trained
    technicians, using only Ferrari
    Genuine parts. Please refer to the
    appropriate Ferrari booklet for full
    terms and conditions.
     
  19. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
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    Had a talk with my service advisor today and he cleared a couple of things up (I think.) First, the clutch. Their report states "clutch is worn to 20% remaining" he tells me that means 80% remaining and 20% worn. Now that I re-read their report, I think I'm going to ask about that one again...
    Their report also states brake "pads worn 7mm", and "rear brake pads worn 8mm" Same thing, he says that means 7mm and 8mm remaining.
    He also states that although their report states "recommend replacing timing belts" that's only because they don't have a record of them being replaced, but visually they are OK.
    So, assuming their report on the clutch is just perhaps the worst wording on clutch wear I can think of, and the brake pad wear is OK, and the belts are OK, I am down to tires, battery, wiper blades, fluids, and service due. Let's assume the PS leak is incidental.
    FWIW, I bought the car with 17360 miles when it arrived, it's 17890 now (the local dealer drove it 100 of those miles getting the car to smog.)
     
  20. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
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    Powertrain only for a car of this age.
     
  21. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Jun 6, 2010
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    #21 Piper, Dec 27, 2013
    Last edited: Dec 27, 2013
    How do you know a visual inspection of the timing belts was performed and they look okay? There's a reason cars convey without records of belt service. If the belt service was done in the last three years, your dealer probably would have been provided a record. Since that means it probably hasn't been done in at least five years, you have to ask yourself, do you think it ever had it's first belt service? Take a pic of the lower belt cover with some decent light and post it. Ferrari marks the hoses and I think the original clamp with a yellow marker so you can tell if the hose has been removed, and it has to be removed to get the cover off to inspect the belt. Why you would go through the labor to take the covers off and visually inspect the belts and not replace them is beyond me. I'm intrigued. How they look is almost immaterial anyway. Obviously older belts aren't as dark as newer ones, but that's not the concern, is it. The concern is a relatively "okay" looking belt sheering a couple of teeth at high rpm.
     
  22. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
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    No way of knowing other than that's what the service advisor told me today.

    Not seeing these things myself makes it tough to get to the bottom of this, I'm pretty sure the dealer who sold me the car will have a different take.
     
  23. Piper

    Piper Two Time F1 World Champ
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    I don't know how you enjoy your car without knowing if the belts were ever replaced. I'd replace them.
     
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  24. cls

    cls Formula 3

    Jun 12, 2007
    1,663
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    Chris
    I'll see what the selling dealer comes up with. I just sent him the report and asked for feedback.

    I agree, and the good news is, I enjoy maintaining cars and knowing things are done correctly.
     
  25. futureferraribuyer

    futureferraribuyer Formula Junior

    Jun 23, 2010
    296
    Something sounds weird. Full CPO inspection includes compression test. I got a graph of the compression test and SD2 results of the clutch reading when I got my CPO inspected car. There is nothing about the bodywork on the CPO inspection as far as I know.
     

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