From what I understand the the belt change for the 575M is every 5 years or 30,000 miles. Does anyone have an idea what that cost approximtely? The service would most likely be done by either FOLI or Universal both on Long Island... Thank you in advance, Leo
Leo, it depends on whether your car has the old belts or the new ones. Your next belt change will be good for 5 years. Don't think that you can go an extra two years on a pair of three year-old belts. The only way to know how much the belt change will cost is to ask Fof LI and Universal for estimates. Prices vary according to region, but I have heard $1,200 for belts only. I would bet that they get top dollar where you live. You should make sure that everything else that should be done at 30K has been done already if you only plan to do the belts.
You will know if you are dealing with a credible organization if you are asked what is your car's assembly number regarding the camshaft drive belt. This will determine whether your car already has the new style (5 yr.) rather than the old style (3 yr.). If your car's assembly number begins with or is after 43847, then you have the 5 year camshaft drive belt which means every 5 years or 32,000 miles. See Bulletin 1003/A dated May 2008. Otherwise, the change is every 3 years or 30,000 miles. The part number is 187744.
I was under the impression that all the 575 had the 5 year belts whereas the 550 had 3 year belts. Taz will know.
All US 575Ms came with the five year belts. The change was made at Assembly Number 43847, which predates any US 575M by quite a bit. The first US 575M was SN 126689 and the earliest US 575M for which I have an Assembly Number is SN 127223, Assembly Number 44688. Even assuming all the cars built from SN 126689 to SN 127223 were 575Ms, which they were not, the earliest Assembly Number for a US 575M would be 44154, well after the belts were changed. Cost on a lock and swap belt change is $1500-3000 including parts. If you put in new tensioner bearings (recommended), that is an additional $300 or so. The 575M already has the updated tensioner bracket recommended for 456/M and 550 models. Taz Terry Phillips
We charge $4,200 for a full major service based off a $100/hour labor rate. Our website will be updated shortly but the following explains our major service program and I Included a parts break down of what is included. Expect to pay in that range from any service provider on Long Island. Major Service Bradans major service program offers a comprehensive mechanical maintenance of your vehicle to ensure reliability. Following factory recommended guidelines, our technicians refresh your motor using only OEM replacement parts. Timing is set and valves are adjusted when applicable. All fluids are flushed and all mechanical components in the vehicle are checked. Customers are updated via email as each stage of the service is completed. Should any other issues be discovered during your service, photos are sent along with a plan to address these issues, as well as an estimate. We pride ourselves on keeping you involved in the maintenance process in order to help you better understand your vehicle. This greater understanding will make you a more proud and educated owner. All major services include our paint correction and detailing package to restore your vehicles exterior and interior as well. We verify perfect running condition on our chassis Dynometer and provide a detailed chart of your vehicles performance figures. Free flatbed pickup and delivery is offered to the Tri-State area. Ferrari 575 Major Service Parts List 2 x VALVE COVER GASKETS 6 x CAM O-RING 4 x CAM SEAL 2 x END PLATE GASKET 2 x END PLATE GASKET 4 x CAM BOLT O-RING 2 x TIMING BELT 2 x TIMING BELT BEARINGS 2 x AIR FILTERS 2 x OIL FILTERS 1 x PS BELT 1 x ALT/AC BELT 4 x OIL EXHAUST O-RING 2 x INTAKE GASKET (PLENUM) 2 x INTAKE GASKET (MANIFOLD) 1 x POLLEN FILTER 12 x NGK IRIDIUM SPARK PLUGS As stated based off the chassis code a 575 service interval could be 3 or 5 years.
I believe you are incorrectly restating what Taz said. All 575's have a 5 year belt service interval, assuming 30,000 miles has not been exceeded in that time. How long are 575 spark plugs good for?
Maranello plugs should be changed at 30,000 miles and there is no such thing as a major service on a Maranello. Bradan- The parts you list are a mixture of annual, 3 year, 15,000 mile, 30,000 mile and 5 year service intervals, none of which are likely to occur simultaneously. There are no valve adjustments on any Maranello and the cam covers do not need to be removed, unless they are leaking, for a belt change. Degreeing the cams is only recommended by Ferrari if the camshafts must be removed for some reason. The intake manifolds certainly do not need to be removed on the 575, and only on the 550 if the plenum hoses have not been replaced with silicone hoses during past service. All US spec 575Ms have a five year interval on cam belt changes. Let me know if you require clarification on that point. If a 575 has been maintained by the book, service costs are reasonable and the five year belt and tensioner service is not that expensive. The cam belt change on my car, performed by Bobileff in April 2008, was $1200 plus parts. Parts required are two cam belts, two auxiliary belts, and two tensioners, around $500 for all, and the tensioners are recommended overkill. Rebuilding the waterpump at five years is another overkill service item not listed by Ferrari, and parts for that are very reasonable. Taz Terry Phillips
I was quoted $9000 for a "belt service on a 575" today by a Ferrari Dealer. I said: "but I heard they were $1200 to $2400 on F-chat and the highest I heard on there was $4500...how do you get $9000?" Dealer said: "let me check...[much computer and calculator crunching followed]...well, its $7000". I said: "wow. What is your hourly rate? Dealer: "$145". How can a service range from $1200 to $9000???
Not true at all. The only real way to tell is by looking at the belts to see. That is the sign of a good organization. Many of these cars have had the new belts installed and many have not. A smart shop will never assume by the assembly number Ferrari provides.
It is called the "Ferrari owner pain level". Tell them the price, and, if they squeal, go a little lower. More squealing, still lower. $9k or $7k is a rip-off. Even at $145/hr. Here are the prices quoted by Foreign Cars Italia in NC for a basic cam belt change. That would include changing the cam belts and auxiliary belts and doing nothing else. 308: $1499.95 328: $1499.95 348: $4259.95 TR: $4399.95 355: $4379.95 550: $2289.95 360: $1499.95 575: $2289.95 Note the expensive ones include engine removal. My car had a belt change in April 2008 performed by Gary Bobileff's shop, and the charge was $1200 plus parts. I would find a good independent to do the job. Brian- Have you ever seen a 575M with the old belts? I doubt it because only a very few early Euro 575Ms had the old belts. Lots of 550s, but no 575Ms here, could have the old belts unless they were still being installed in late 2005, 3 years after the new belts were introduced. Taz Terry Phillips
Not true Terry. A. We have always called a 30k a major. Some even call the 15 a major. It has never really been a Ferrari term. B. While it is true that degreeing the cams is not always done, to count solely on the accuracy of the job done in Maranello is not always a good idea and to count at all on a timing job done by someone other than yourself by someone outside of Maranello is very risky. C. Ferrari only updated 1 of the 3 coolant hoses on all the cars, 2 on some of the cars and 3 on none of the cars. All of them need to have the manifold removed for hose replacement. D. They all have intake manifold gasket trouble as well. It is rare when I see a car needing service that does not have vacuum leaks. To go only by the book on maintaining these cars is asking for trouble. Ferrari dreams up the list before the cars are even built. Shops that service them day in and day out know from experience far better than Ferrari ever will what they really need.
I cannot think of a reason why the belt change on a 550 or 575 should be any more expensive than the 360? The 360 is imho even more work than the v12's?
Terry, I know of some dealers, and with very good reputations that have never seen some of the very important service bulletins. They often never get past the person who opens the mail. To always count on a dealer or anyone else to follow the service bulletin is a bad idea. There were old timing belts in the supply chain for a long time. I know one big well known dealer who is still not doing one of the important F1 updates to 360's because they were never told. They finally put them all out on CD but you could spend days reading it and it is seldom done.
Brian- Live and learn. Since all US 575Ms were delivered with the new belts, it just seemed illogical that someone would replace new belts with old belts at the incorrect 3 year (vs 5 year) interval. But I guess it is scarier than I thought out there and some shops do not keep up with the tech data at all. I remember reisistance when I first posted the Tech Bulletin showing the 5 year change here on FChat. I do note that the radiator hoses are a 15,000 mile service item for checks of tightness and hose condition, but nothing on the plennum hoses. I thought all the plenum hoses were upgraded on the 575M, but now see that the engine to expansion tank hose (47 in the parts diagram) was not updated for the 575M, just like you said. Would you recommend one of Dave Helms' hoses for replacing the two small plenum hoses and how often should the intake mainifolds be removed if the hoses are replaced? The term major for Maranellos still bothers me because it mixes requirements of mileage and time and hints at valve adjustment and engine removal. There are very few 575Ms with 30,000 miles, but many that have had two belt services based on time (3 yrs, not 5) and still have low mileage. At 30,000 miles, a 575M with a recent belt change does not need one, but the term "major" hints that one should be done. Even more of a waste at 15,000 miles. If you do all the 15,000 or 30,000 mile services at a belt change, you are wasting money. I guess it comes down to knowing what is required and making sure you and your technicians are on the same sheet of music. On degreeing the cams, you and Dave had me convinced at one point that it needed to be done on every belt change until you both said no, not required if you know who did it the last time. Mine was done at the factory and then a lock and swap was done, so not much should have changed. What is the real answer for late model cars? I understand on 308s that have been around 30 or so years. Taz Terry Phillips
The hoses come with a 'best before' date from Ferrari! Last time I got some was in September, when they said best before 12-2019 I believe. Other non-rubber parts said 2099 so there seems to be a difference. One could conclude from that that Ferrari prescribes 10 years, but I do not believe the manual says anything about them. 10 years hose life would make sense based on personal experience. Whether it's best to go for a higher quality hose here, I'd say probably yes. Alternatively put them on the maintenance list, they fail often enough.
I use Daves hose for both of the smaller hoses. I expect it to be the next best thing to a permanant fix. The small hose Ferrari uses is a time bomb. We are stuck with the term "Major Service". You are correct, it really does not exist except as a construct of the dealer network. It used to make sense in the days when the majority of cars got enough mileage every 5 years to do it all. Now we see cars come in at the 3 or 5 year mark for belts that just do not need an entire major. The servicing schedule was never designed that way but the simple fact is that with the expenses dumped on Ferrari franchises, at least in this country, that to survive they need the income. The cars maintenance requirements really need to be tailored to the owners use. We see cars that need more than just an annual service because they are driven so much and we see cars that are here to get belts that have less than 2000 on the ones we are taking out. It is different to varying degrees on the cars that require engine removal but on a 575 or 360 there is just no justification to do a full on major every belt change. For the shops that don't get that, all I can say is they ought to get rid of their monkeys and hire humans that have the ability to exercise judgement. The part that is amusing to me is the fact that most of the owners of these have to have achieved some degree of success to own one and they are so easily intimidated into spending large quantities of money unnecessarily only because the service writer has a yellow badge with a black horse on his shirt. It is license to steal and trust me, they know it. These are not "one size fits all" cars and they cannot be serviced that way if you have any regard whatsoever for the car, it's owner or your integrity.
While some of what you say is a bit harsher than I might state, the overall sentiment resonates with me...especially today. The $9000 quote I got from the dealer was, I am concluding, for a "major"...even though I specifically asked for a price for only the belts and told them I was getting similar quotes of $2-3,000. They ultimately explained the difference along the lines of we replace the "hoses under the intake, and the cam seals (what are those?), the belts and (I'm thinking) some other stuff". And that, they say, is the only way to go vs. the "small indy shops that cut corners." So...at least the work and parts would add up to $9,000. Then the issue is, as you point out, using judgment and only maintaining/replacing that which needs it...interesting stuff this Ferrari ownership... Oh, I have to add...along these lines...the battery in my Maser died while stored this summer (I know, get a maintainer next time) and I had to replace it. So, I call AAA. Guy shows up, won't take a charge, he says we have to replace. Interestingly the previous owner left the receipt in the battery compartment. He paid $80 at Kragen last year. AAA guy wants $180 installed. I call the F/M dealer and ask about any by-pass terminal to keep power to the stereo etc during the switch, and for giggles ask them the price for their battery...wait for it....$340. So, to recap: $80 at Kragen. $180 from the AAA guy saving your butt. $340 from the dealer. Good grief...you would think they must be losing money on each $250,000+ new ferrari sale to have to charge these amounts for parts and labor...
Do you believe in the tooth fairy? The cam belts on the 575 and 550 are on the front of the engine.... even a 355 which requires engine removal does not cost $5000 with relevant tensioners, water pump etc etc replaced.The previous quote of $1200 plus parts is correct. If you look on the F chat english board you will find standard quotes of around 900 british pounds plus parts. If the dealer has quoted you $7000-$9000 I would think twice about going there unless you believe the rubbish they are telling you $145 per hour is a bit steep as well but if you check with the illuminatey on this board they will quote you to within 1 hr how long a belt change plus ancilliaries will take.Lets say its 15 hrs which is a one armed mechanic, that would still only amount to $2175 in labour my understanding is that a 550 and 575 can be dropped off early morning and will be ready by end of the day so lets say 8 hrs thats $1160..... bingo about $1200 plus parts. Take it to a recommended F chatter mechanic in your city and save some well needed $$$$
Better still fly PAP over from Australia he will probably do it for free plus air fares and a few days accom.Even after these costs it would still be cheaper.
One of the best posts I have read here in years, my compliments. Years back Kris went through the time to input all of the wording for a "Major Service" on each model and saved them as a canned job. Worthless... there is no such thing as a one fits all major service. Aside from a few standard parts, I am unable to even figure out what parts one should inventory... they all have different requirements exactly as Brian stated.
Am I correct that the 575 has hydraulic lash adjusters (HLAs) which automatically maintain cam to valve clearance and there's no shimming required for these models? Naive question, just trying to get a sense of what I'd get into should I decide to do a major myself next year. Philip
Philip- Affirmative, hydraulic lifters on the 550 and 575M. You come up with some interesting acronyms. Never heard that one before, even though it is used if you google it.
But the hydraulic lifters aren't necessarily troublefree and do bear checking as Moorfan found a number of his out of commission.
John- I think Dave Helms was working on rebuilding lifters for the V8s with improved parts. Not sure if he is doing the V12s or not.
