55027 1985 400i a/t White Black int

I have not posted in a while, but work on the 400 continues....
Last Sunday removed the frequency valve, lucky to have the replacement "short" banjo bolts and new
copper gaskets in my stock....
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Here are other parts removed with DC Johnson control box...the little gold resistor....power relay....but I never found a temp switch or throttle switch.
Pics of O2 sensor plugs to follow..
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Here are the O2 plugs.....nice and clean....
Duh...rotate second photo please...
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While underneath after my purchase, noticed this check valve...definitely not original...and where did the hose go to, a canister under the battery tray, now you see it, now you don't....a BMW part.
And again.....please rotate your head to see BMW label.
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And, of course, the vapor can needed a bit of sucking air to draw in the fuel tank fumes...so.....
Nice red sealer, yup, real nice....
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If anyone remembers, when I bought this 400, it was running on the right hand bank only....it did not pump air thru the left side at all......I think I found that problem....yes I took the pipe/muffler rear section out and stood it on end....banging on the pipe with the wood hammer handle until it stopped chucking chunks out, then found a good size axle nut on the workbench and dropped it in one end and it fell out the other.
A $20 VW pipe clamp will do until I get back to the welder.
And the cats were the first parts I had removed, the left side was rattling.
Sorry....this tilted photo thing is starting to bug me...I promise they are right side up when I look at them !
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Ross....
Yup....no testing or inspections here in Florida for over 30 years, it's all going in a cardboard box next.
All the DC Johnson control stuff, the fuel tank vapor check valve, vapor can......everything is coming off.
And I also have a CHMSL that I may remove as long as they did not make a hole in the parcel shelf for the wire...otherwise, I may make it work and leave it.....just not ready to do leather work yet.

Gary

 

And.....we're back.
After a couple of months of no work on 55027, I was able to locate and purchase new fuel pumps Bosch # 0580254947..short # 69532 for my 85 400i. (Thanks, Ken..)
I had already removed the RH pump to get the original part number off of it, and already have new filters to change at the same time. I had also noticed white crusty corrosion on the inlet pipe of the pump and inside the inlet hose, so for a quick stop at the local parts store I scored 5 feet of red fuel hose, (the kind you would use to pump out the fuel tank mounted in the bed of your 1 ton dually truck) , it's good for all kinds of different fuels plus 212 degrees, and the right size.
For the past couple of weeks I have been under the 400 most evenings...swapped out both filters, both pumps and both inlet hoses, which I left off of the fuel tank fittings while "looping" a short hose and removing the drain plug, add a drain pan and pour a gallon into the fuel tank and watch it pour into the pan below, pour all but the cruddy stuff back into a 1 gal can and do it again....then took out the tank sender on the RH side and did the same several times. I did not find replacement outlet tank fittings with screens, but I did use the compressor to gently blow backwards, hoping any debris caught in the screens would rinse down into the waiting drain pan.
Fastened the new fuel inlet hoses and poured in 5 gals of 96 octane W/O ethanol and wanted to pressure test fuel system, so I removed safety sensor connector on the LH air valve box, removed both LH & RH fuel pump relays and turned the key to "on"...kneeling at the RH open door, I could plug in a relay and look underneath for leaks at the same time ( the car is a foot of the floor on 4 jackstands )...which did happen...after R & R the pipe from pump to accumulator twice, robbing copper gaskets from my 2 spare filters, re-facing some coppers by the old school figure 8 on 320 grit paper, finally was able to power up both relays with NO drips out the bottom, until the return hose from the LH side at the forward end started leaking...quick trip around the block and return with 4 feet of 5/16 fuel line.
Bored yet ? ...Here is where it gets interesting.....I started at 1:00 today with finishing the install on the LH pump, then all the leaks...I had already changed to an MSD ign system, and had changed spark plugs and checked comp a week or so ago...I thought I was ready to start the engine.....(I closed the door and turned out the lights at 8:00 pm.)
Replaced the conn onto the blue sensor, checked for leaks one last time....turned the key to crank........engine rotates a quarter turn and stops...turn key back and forth again...no movement.
I have been rebuilding engines for more then 40 years....this thing is hydro-locked !
I pulled all 12 plugs...cyl 12, 11 and 8 have wet plugs aaaannnnd..I can SEE fuel in the cylinders....ten minutes with a turkey baster and a plastic hose....shop towels in each plug cavity with a small piece of plywood on top, spin her over and the remaining fuel spits out.
I have never heard of a starter being able to spin any damage into a hydro-locked engine, and it spins free now, I will do comp check in a few days when I can.
Here is my question....finally, Right ? How did the 3 injectors fire fuel into the engine ?
Yes, I had pressure from the pumps, but with no air flow to raise the valve/piston the fuel should have just re-cycled thru and back to the tank ? (Remember the leaking return hose, it was on the LH side while I was pressure testing the RH side...does the crossover pipe between the WUR's flow enough to do that ? ) Do I have a stuck fuel dist ?
Are there 3 injectors stuck open ?
If I try to start this V-12, what will happen ? Can the fuel system deliver enough fuel to lock up the engine if/when it does start ?
Too many questions...? Ok....gimme any ideas you got....Thanks in advance !

Gary

 

So.....after reading what I could find this week and talking to the "senior" VW tech next door........

1. The only way for fuel to feed the injectors is to make the plunger/piston raise up inside the fuel dist.
And that should only happen when cranking airflow thru the air valve housing, moving the metering piston up.
Which means without cranking engine, I have a too "high" piston or it is stuck high.

2. Only 3 of 6 injectors flowed, which means the 3 that did NOT are stuck closed....if, and it's a big if...the stuck fuel piston is passing fuel to all 6 lines equally.

I think the LH fuel dist needs to be rebuilt....and at least all 6 LH injectors need to come out for cleaning.
Has anyone here pulled injectors ? Any issues/tricks ? Need new seals ?
I do have a diesel shop that can clean/flush them for me, for free, he has done Volvo/VW/MB before.

What do you think ?

 

Here is my next test...
When I have time, I will remove the 6 LH fuel injector lines at the injectors, and tie strap a wadded up shop towel on the end of each line.
Then as before, dis-connect the safety sensor on the LH fuel unit and remove the RH fuel pump relay. When I turn the key to "on" for just a second, it will power up the LH pump and push fuel thru the system.
If only lines 12. 11, 8 get wet with fuel, then only those 3 slots in the metering piston are flowing fuel. If all six lines are wet, then it's still an issue with the fuel piston, but at least all six ports/slots are doing the same thing...either the pistons "rest" position is too high, or it is stuck in place due to fuel shellac or debris or water.

Sound good ? Or am I missing something ?

Gary

 

Hello again....last nite I was able to get some work done.
After watching a few YouTube videos on Bosch CIS, I pulled 5 injectors from the LH side, found 2 small glass jars on the work bench, and after dumping the nuts/bolts out, managed to aim the injectors inside.
Same routine as before, air valve sensor dis-connected, RH fuel pump relay out, LH fuel pump relay in, MSD box unplugged, turn key to start for 1-2 seconds and.........we have fuel squirting.
So, this weekend, time permitting, I will hook up my CIS test gage and check both system pressure and control press, for fuel to flow without air flowing means the metering piston is "up" off of base, or that control pressure is allowing it to move up to a fuel flow position, or it is stuck in the housing.
A second issue is why don't all the left hand injectors flow, why just 3 out of 6...hhmmmmm

Till next time......

Gary

 

Hey !! Hi, Bruce......I was beginning to think there was no one out there.
Thanks for spotting that kit, I have seen them for more $ before, just never took the leap yet. I tend to over-study a problem first, never ever jump right in, I will use the pressure gauge test this weekend, I don't know enough about the distributor unit yet to tackle a rebuild.
I did score a genuine CIS injector removal tool from our VW tech, he gave it to me, sez he hasn't used it in 20 years. The shop also has a injector tester, but someone broke the fluid bottle, I will do some research next week to find a bottle and will ask to get that tool also.

I am on the east coast and have been to Tampa/St. Pete several times, if I can ever get this 400i running, it would be a trip I could do.

Thanks.....Gary
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After some deep thinking about the entry above and the pressure test....I realized it would be difficult to get an accurate reading with the fuel dist passing fuel to the injectors. I would need one eye on the gauge and the other eye on my glass jars which would be filling up as the pump was running.
Also, readings would not be true with "one end of the hose open", and as the local Volvo tech found, I also need to disable the crossover tube between the 2 WUR's before testing.
So, I will most likely remove the fuel lines and dismount the fuel dist from the air valve housing to get a look at the bottom, where the meter piston sticks out the bottom....just to see if it moves.

I will let you know what I find......

Gary

 

Got the fuel dist off and split from the air valve housing, the metering piston NOT stuck, also have 5 injectors from left side off. I will split the injectors from their lines and take them to a local shop where they can test and clean them.
One of our senior techs has worked on CIS and even on our cars with it.....a long time ago, he tells me to buy a rebuild kit and overhaul it myself.....don't know if I am ready to do that, might have to call Larry and send it off to Alabama.

Gary
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Yup....it's been awhile.....if you read backwards a few #'s you can catch up....the fuel distributor needs an overhaul.
Found a rebuild kit on the inter-net for $94, called my friend at a diesel shop who volunteered to do the rebuild and we both studied 24 pages of instructions.
Here we go !
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All apart, cleaning, then back together again in about an hour and 30 minutes.
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All done, looks great.......now I need the time to install and test......stay tuned !
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Great news !!! The engine runs ! After rebuilding the left side fuel dist, reinstalling fuel lines and fittings, purging the air out.......cranked the engine over, and it started !
Ran well, but had a missfire out the left exhuast pipe, the same side of the faulty fuel unit, just a single "pop" every now & then. I guessed a bad plug or a wire, so I bought 12 new spark plugs, put them in last nite .
Turned the key and started right away, sounds great, no missfires, idles good.

I have owned 55027 for about 18 months, except for starting and running to diagnose the problem, I have never had the engine running correctly until last nite.....what a incredible relief it is !
And the sound is absolutly fantastic !!!!!

This weekend I need to back out of the garage and let it warm up to check the cooling system and fans, if all is OK then I will get to the tag office next week.... after shopping for insurance, of course.

A huge THANK YOU to all of you who have helped with info or answers on this site, what a great group of fanatics of 365-400-412's. I am very happy to have saved 55027 from sitting in storage for 7 years.

Thanks !

Gary

 

Thanks Brian.......you bet, pictures for sure, already making plans about where and when.
Maybe on the beach in Daytona ?


Gary

 

It drives !!
Started up, let it warm to just before 90 cel on the gage and the fans kicked in....tried the a/c and it started blowing cold air and all three fans were going.
Drove down the street and back, ran fine, the auto shifted to 2nd and 3rd, streering is stiff/hard at low speed....( normal ) brakes were hard but I know I have a v-belt slice in the vacume line from the pump to the booster, ( to be fixed ).

And here is a pic from the driveway, the first sunshine on the car in a year and a half !!

Gary


( hood & door not latched )
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