It seems to me that prices for 512's are much higher in the US than in Europe. (Opposite for Mondials) So I put together a little spreadsheet. For the US I used Autotrader. For Europe I used Mobile.de, only German dealers. I deducted the VAT (19%) that they include in their quoted price and converted the net it to dollars at $1.23/Euro to get the German price in Euros. First thing that pops out is the average mileage is about twice as high on the German cars. But it seems excluding the last two time capsules in Germany the average asking price is $60,900 higher in the US, that's 35% higher. But when you scroll down with your eyes you can see some cars with a specific mileage in the US and how much cheaper a car with nearly the same mileage is in Germany, from a dealer. Now we all know condition and service history are everything. But if you read the description of many of these German cars a lot of them are current on service. They can't all suffer from deferred maintenance. Your thoughts please? Image Unavailable, Please Login
Interesting, I would note that with total production around 2200 cars, with only around 500 to the USA, the laws of supply and demand are probably in effect here. I just purchased a euro model in Canada, and imported it to the USA. I actually like the fact that euro models do not have the mouse belts, or cats!! Price and condition being equal I would always buy the euro car!!!
Issue is if you import the euro here it will not have the same value bc considered as grey market car. For sure it is worth it though Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
now that almost all 512tr's are over 25 years old, they are not grey market cars anymore - they are world cars. they are fungible everywhere. just because the usa cars had those ridiculous mouse belts, and some steel bars in the doors, will not make them more valuable 10 years down the road - basically nobody gives a **** about those things, and may actually even prefer normal seat belts - i know i do. if these euro car owners really wanted to achieve a higher price, then they would consign them to bonhams and have them flog them to the highest market. which may in fact happen if the price disparity for like-for-like cars is really big enough to cover shipping and friction. but they arent really that big. the freight and import duties, and consignment/auction fees, pretty much cover that 35k gap you show in average prices. ie, now that it is a world car, the market prices are only separated by logistical aspects.
Honestly i dont mind the seatbelts. I mind the silly emission laws which meant less power/ or sound state side. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
What does that say about the demand side in Europe? Are Europeans not interested in paying as much as American collectors? I know every car has to be looked at individually but look at some of the ones with similar mileage above. Europe, 21,700 miles, $153,802 US 21,400 miles, $249,600 Europe, 31,806 miles, $147,703 US 32,900 miles, $175,000 Europe, 7,378 miles, $212,821 US, 7,500 miles, $299,000 Those are some decent spreads. But then again who knows where stuff is really trading?
One thing thay may come into play though is how much ppl are getter paid and able to pay. Let me explain: i am french; back home someon making above 5k a month is rich; here in California u have it tough; so that could be a MINOR factor. Other thing that make those euro prices even more attractive? It includes TAX already! In the US we got add them and in California that’s not cheap! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I took the tax out of them and then converted to USD. So please tell me why Apple products are at least 20% higher here before taxes? (The taxes are obscene by the way.)
Let’s discuss sale prices, not asking. It seems owners and dealers can’t come to the reality that the 512 mkt is significantly lower then almost all asking prices. A few just got listed and the prices don’t even seem rational. I would imagine EU and US prices are closer then most think.
keep some things in mind. - road tax in europe varies but can be extremely steep - they often use a formula based on weight, bhp, engine volume and cylinders....so a 5 ltr 12 cylinder heavy car like the 512tr is an expensive proposition. - road tax also varies by car age and can increase as time goes by to encourage the culling of older cars. - insurance costs can be quite high in places - cheap in others. - size....the 512tr is nearly 7 ft wide in back, which made it difficult to get around london streets with bollards, or get into any parking spaces (actually you can get into the space but then you cannot exit the car!). - the 512tr shape is not as revered in europe as in the usa - maybe miami vice has something to do with that. etc. my guess is you could look at different 25 yr old + ferraris in both europe and the usa and see similar % price spreads. it is just a lot harder in europe to own a lot of cars - whether its a space thing, a road tax thing, a cost of fuel thing, a war on speed thing etc etc.
Agree completely! You can ask whatever you want, but the market will decide what you get if are willing! Plus if the car is in good shape and you want to drive it , then I would think that recent records of maintenance should be ok? Just my 2 pieces of copper Sent from my BBA100-1 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
Interesting comparison and thoughts. I always thought f cars were a bit cheaper in the states but I was looking at 348/355/360s. But you guys seem to get clobbered on service costs so it kind of balanced out. Interesting to see it doesn’t always hold true. With respect to road tax, in the uk it’s almost irrelevant. My 348 costs £240 a year. My 94 Saab 93 costs more!! The government continues to tinker with bands based on co2 etc. so a cars tax is not always logical. And it changes every year. That said, it’s not a factor in any ferrari owners sums. Insurance isn’t much of an issue either, especially if your middle aged and have a clean lic. £400 for my 348 including full European coverage and other perks. I’d think the comments re Miami vice might be more on the mark, but who knows. I also know of a guy who sold his 458 as it was too wide and would continually scrape the headge rows where he lived. So size might be an issue....go on say it!!!!!! Would be interesting to do a comparison for a few other cars; but where to draw the line, ie a mondial i would suggest is not a “world car”, someone in Europe isn’t going to look in the states for one, but a 512, 275 etc....
thats why i also had 2 cars registered in the uk. in switzerland, the road tax for my ferraris was on average about 4k per year. the insurance was another 4k. the only advantage was that i could put two cars on the same license plate and only pay the costs for 1.
my BB koenig has a veteran status in germany ( older than 30 years ) the tax is not even 200,- € and the insurance you must have ( liability insurance ) is only nearly 30,- €, but i may not go more than 5000 km a year. sure I have an additional insurance ( fully comprehensive insurance ) that cost me around 2.000,- € more but with a deductible of 5.000,- € each case. the car value for the insurance is stated with 330k €. so cheap to go with a veteran in germany. if no veteran status you pay much much more for tax and also for insurance, but just now have those costs not in mind. also in germany when you have registered several cars some insurance companies give you discount, but this belongs also on who will drive the car and how long you have your driving license. it is like a flea market - you have to act and discuss. an other positive thing for the veteran status is that you may drive all over. we have here meanwhile some cities that have closed all streets for cars with high pollution exhaust gases but this is not belonging to those "old" cars when they have this vetaran status how many percent is it? from an estimated value? or from the bill of sale?
Uh Apple products more expensive in the USA? I think u are mistaken; its way more expensive back in France and we have them in euro which is around 20% more than a dollar. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
In looking over that spread sheet I would assume that the selling prices of US cars today would already be BELOW those EU asking prices.
Depending on time of sale, currency fluctuations have to be factored in to some degree Sent from my BBA100-1 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
But your beer and food more than make up for any inconvenience! Sent from my BBA100-1 using FerrariChat.com mobile app
that was one of the jarring revelations when i moved back to the usa after being abroad for 26 years - yes i had known things were generally more expensive in europe than the usa, but just quite how ridiculous it is does not become completely evident until you are here. europe is a massive, massive rip off on nearly anything you can think of.
