512TR Gearbox problem. | Page 13 | FerrariChat

512TR Gearbox problem.

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Melvok, Oct 31, 2011.

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  1. janrbh17

    janrbh17 Rookie

    May 6, 2012
    26
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Jan R B Hansen
    I have read the thread now and I believe you are all paranoid! No, I understand. 3 times broken on my car the diff/gearboxissue is certainly the final proof I need to be constantly worried about it breaking, if it`s repaired in the same way with OEM parts. I will buy the diff from Forzamotorsport. But I don`t know yet what other parts I need. New bearings here and there is wise, as I understand from the thread. Maybe a couple of new gears. New crown wheel and pinion. Man! it`s gonna be expensive. In 2007 I paid almost 30 000 euros for the repair.
    I will have my mechanic read this thread ( probably need to pay him 150 euros for that...).
    Will post updates, but it will be a while. I expect to be driving the car next spring.
    In the meantime if you guys have a source of gearboxparts at discountprices I would like to know.
     
  2. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
    14,101
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    Mel
    NO more TR or 512TR parts as discount prices I am afraid .... they also have risen tremendously :(

    I have one lhs complete mirror for sale still ... new painted red .... :)
     
  3. janrbh17

    janrbh17 Rookie

    May 6, 2012
    26
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Jan R B Hansen
    But what about the company that manufactured the crown wheel and pinion for your car? don`t they have "the blueprint" and can manufacture the same parts for very little cost? I have sent some e-mails to gearbox-companys to see if they can manufacture such gears on demand. I guess many of you have done that when you have had broken gearboxes like I have now. Shouldn`t it be possible to find someone who can manufacture those things ( incl. gears inside the gearbox and axles and such) and can be a future source for such parts?? in 2007 it was hell just to locate the OEM parts. And it was expensive. I am gonna post replies when I get feedback from those companies.
     
  4. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
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    Yes, my C&P were produced for bb-motors Germany and that firm installed C&P + new Forza diff under his guarantee !

    He had 4 sets made. Problem is that this factory has to find a timeslot to produce them. Cost us 6 months !!

    If speed was there: ten times more expensive but ready in three weeks ... (10 x € 5000 = ...???)
     
  5. janrbh17

    janrbh17 Rookie

    May 6, 2012
    26
    Norway
    Full Name:
    Jan R B Hansen
    OK. I got i nice reply from a company called Ricardo in the UK:

    "The following pricing for the manufacture of 1off and 20off Crownwheel and Pinions is approximate, once we have seen the existing items we would be able to give an accurate quote.
    Tooling and fixtures would need to be purchased for manufacturing, this could cost between £3-5,000 GBP.
    In addition there would be a charge for engineering the Crownwheel and Pinion, assuming this would take 1 week the price would be £4,000 GBP.
    To manufacture a single Crownwheel and Pinion would be approximately £4-5,000 GBP
    The total price for 1off Crownwheel and Pinion would therefore be approximately £11-14,000 GBP (£3-5,000 + £4,000 + £4-5,000 = £11-14,000 GBP)

    to manufacture 20off the price would come down drastically to approximately £1,500 GBP each, this would including engineering and tooling."

    AND I GOT ANSWER FROM EUROSPARES: "110016 crown & pinion £5650,00 in stock brand new"

    So for 35000 GBP ( I guess it was 1500 GBP per crownwheel AND pinion. Not 1500 for crown wheel and 1500 for the pinion) I could get 20 sets.
    I am no businessman and don`t like risks. Would the 20 sets be possible to sell ( I would offer them at 2000 GPB or something) in a few years time or would the Ferraristis always try to buy OEM from Eurospares??

    I think I will play it safe and buy from Eurospares. After I install an upgraded diff I won`t need any more c&p, so then to hell with every other 512 TR-owner with the same problem, right...!? :)
     
  6. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Can't follow you AT ALL Jan ... do NOT buy that there imo.

    Inquire here first with the experts ....
     
  7. janrbh17

    janrbh17 Rookie

    May 6, 2012
    26
    Norway
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    Jan R B Hansen
    what do you mean; not from eurospares or not have it made?
     
  8. uzz32soarer

    uzz32soarer F1 Rookie

    Sep 9, 2006
    3,088
    Melbourne, Australia
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    Robert Hayden
    There are a few places in the World already making them. One in Germany and one in Australia that have been mentioned here before.

    Why re-invent the wheel. Locate one of the European shops and simply order it. It will be cheaper than the OEM part and most likely be made of more modern (better?) materials.

    I also need a 512 CW and P so maybe there is already the start of a bulk buy?
     
  9. vetroresina

    vetroresina Karting

    Dec 20, 2005
    174
    Netherlands & Germany
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    Marcel
    Just got back from vacation and read about Jan's faith.
    A sad situation, you've got in to Jan. Wish you good luck with all the parts that are directly involved. Hope de damage is not to big.
    I just got my TR back after it broke down 3 months ago.
    In Italy I could buy a OEM set (used!!!!) for just shy under the price that Eurospares offered for their's.
    I chose for E S because the quality in comparison with the parts out of Bologna would hardly be less IMO.
    Now I'm glad that I bought a new ( not OEM ) 2nd gear with synchro and feel confident with my uprated diff instaed of the notorious OEM. The C and P will be releaved from the risk of a breaking diff and keep intact.
    What surprises me most is that the second gear shifts like it should, even when the engine is still cold. So it is absolutely not neccessary to accept that well known lazy second with a cold engine.
    Only driving like it''s meant for will learn in time if all this actually keeps it's promise.
     
  10. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Jul 25, 2008
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    Glad the 512TR is now back on the road Marcel; hope to see you (and car :D) soon !

    There is one C&P used for sale at Turbo-Joe in Southern Germany; I would go for that one asap !
     
  11. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
    8,867
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    romano schwabel
    #311 turbo-joe, Aug 14, 2015
    Last edited: Aug 14, 2015
    I still have 2 CP-sets, used, with matching numbers
    mileage unknown

    and 1 brand new set made of very good material. this I let have done for my competition about 5 years ago. but this is expensive - a little more than eurospares are asking for the original one
     
  12. janrbh17

    janrbh17 Rookie

    May 6, 2012
    26
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    Jan R B Hansen
    I read the thread a bit too fast I think. Didn`t see any name of the manufacturers of C&P. That`s why I posted the reply from the Ricardo-guy. No. It`s better to go with the companies that has already made them and have the tools/ blueprints.

    But I think I will try out a pair of used C&P from turbo-joe. If it in fact is the diff-pack that causes all problems, then that problem should be solved with the Forza-diff. And then I don`t think I need anything more than a used pair.

    I saw a documentary once about turbocharging in formula 1. BMW made the craziest cars in the early 80`s with more than 1000 BHP. And they used old engineblocks that had been in normal cars and covered over 200 000 km. Then they new that the engineblock was solid.
    I hope the same applies for C&P gear for the TR.....
     
  13. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    this is right, but they took the used blocks not because they have been solid, they took them because of the age and the mileage there has been no more stress in the blocks

    you may hope but this has nothing to do with the blocks BMW used for the formula 1 cars. with normal power and right adjustment the original CP will never be dead. even the original CP last in my car about 20.000 ( 5 or more owners ! ! ! ) before it was broken when I was driving. but I see that all teeth at the pinion are torn, and 2 are lost because of the original diff I had inside and that was broken
     
  14. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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  15. janrbh17

    janrbh17 Rookie

    May 6, 2012
    26
    Norway
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    Jan R B Hansen
    Update on my gearbox: they have taken it apart and inspected it quickly. My mechanic say that it seem like the pinion gear has lost 3 teeth and that`s whats the main issue. The crown wheel has some damage because of the broken pinion gear. At first glance it seem like the differential is intact..... ( surprise?)
    I have asked them to take photos. The box is being sent of to the gearboxguy now.
    I still want to upgrade the diff, even if the old apparantly seems OK. It has probably anyway taken quite a beating when the pinion broke.
     
  16. turbo-joe

    turbo-joe F1 Veteran

    Apr 6, 2008
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    normaly when the CP is damaged the diff also is not ok anymore
    have an exact look at the diff
    but nevertheless as mel always says: it is not the question if the diff will break, it is only the questions WHEN - so replace it with new bearings

    and we like to see some pictures from the "teethless" pinion
     
  17. 2dinos

    2dinos F1 Rookie

    Jan 13, 2007
    2,772
    That does sound unusual after reading so many failures caused by the carrier. Please post what you find out. I hope this repair goes smooth for you.
     
  18. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    :D
     
  19. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Bad luck for you ..... pfffff

    But how are you going to get a C & P set soon ? They are not simply on the shelves ....
     
  20. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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  21. qwazipsycho

    qwazipsycho Formula 3

    Oct 30, 2004
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  22. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

    Apr 23, 2009
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    If I have enough interest Mel we will make the CW and Pinion. I have all the Ferrari drawings and material specification ready to start.

    Phil
     
  23. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Dec 26, 2001
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    Ive sold a bunch since 06, in custom ratios as well.
     
  24. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Q is ... Do you have one in the shelve or not Phil ?

    And how long does it take after ordering one ? Mine took 4 months in Germany ....
     
  25. Philwozza

    Philwozza Formula 3

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    Its six weeks for order to delivery Mel.

    Phil
     

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