512M engine in a Testarossa | FerrariChat

512M engine in a Testarossa

Discussion in 'Boxers/TR/M' started by Newman, Nov 2, 2012.

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  1. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #1 Newman, Nov 2, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had a 90 testarossa here that was in need of a service, install one of my billet carriers, and squeeze more HP out of it with a haltech engine management system to eliminate the CIS. I did a dyno pull and it laid down 322HP at the wheels which using 15% loss that puts the engine at 370HP - down 10HP from the factory rating. I did a leak down test and found 1, 11 and 12 down 20, 11 and 24% respectively. This news changed our direction. What I found interesting is that 15% is a good number to use on a boxer or Testarossa/TR/M based on these numbers. Ive seen people use 17-19% to get the number they want to see but this proves it for me that 15% is the number. So our options were a used engine, rebuild this one, get a TR engine or and M. We found a few and decided on the M engine because its new in the crate, complete with accessories and everything. I did a lot of research and crossing parts, looking over photos etc before purchasing the 512M engine so I wasnt stuck with it (not that I would be too upset:)) Theres a few unknowns that ill deal with as I go along, im not concerned. Im also installing a Fuchs exhaust in place of the OEM muffler, this car should really rock.
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  2. Testarossa1

    Testarossa1 Karting

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    Wow !!!! Really excited about hearing your progress buddy
    The engine looks gorgeous and shiny new !!

    Tr boy
     
  3. 300GW/RO

    300GW/RO Formula Junior

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    Strikes again!
    can't wait







     
  4. Testarossa Lover

    Testarossa Lover F1 Rookie
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    My buddy intalled a NEW and not used 512M engine which he found on ebay in his 512TR. I tell, that car is fast. I am not sure if you are able to drop a 512M into a Testarossa. Good luck.
     
  5. Todd308TR

    Todd308TR F1 World Champ

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    What's the HP of this new engine?
     
  6. JeremyJon

    JeremyJon F1 Veteran

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    fantastic! brakes might need to be upgraded next? :) ....need an apprentice mechanic? :D :D
     
  7. Spasso

    Spasso F1 World Champ

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    The specs I have found says 440 hp at the flywheel.
     
  8. tf308

    tf308 Formula 3

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    Newman....how do you make that M motor even more powerful?

    After reading the F12 article in forza this month, it's amazing that it has 300hp more.
     
  9. Red Head Seeker

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    #9 Red Head Seeker, Nov 3, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
    Hello Newman; How much MORE hp is the haltech engine management system vs the stock CIS system?. Would not a better approach "Prior" to installing the haltech system been to have done the leak down test FIRST, to establish the initial condition of the motor?. Why take the time & associated labour to install a haltech system to a faltering engine?....Mark
     
  10. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    #10 Newman, Nov 3, 2012
    Last edited: Nov 3, 2012
    I guess I wasnt clear. I havent ordered the haltech, I tested the engine first on the dyno then leak down tested and those results changed our direction. The car still retains its CIS as seen in the pics.
     
  11. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Cant compete with the new engines but we can get more out of this engine because of the exhaust upgrade, lack of converters and the ability to spend time on the dyno getting the fuel and ignition maps just right without having to meet smog requirements. I read somewhere that the M was 448HP, curious to see how much more we can get.
     
  12. Melvok

    Melvok F1 World Champ
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    Hi Paul, nice experiment !

    The mounting of an M engine is not just easy; the rack and dimensions in a TR are quite different from the 512TR and 512M frame ....

    Did you also get the ECU's or go for that other system ? By the way, the 512TR engine gives 428 HP ...

    Very nice buy, such a brand new M engine ... would love to do this experiment too ! ;) Good Luck !
     
  13. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Paul, how many Kms did the old engine have ?
     
  14. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    80,000 kms
     
  15. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Thanks Melvok Ive done a lot of measuring and put a lot of thought into this prior to going this direction. The TR engine sits lower so Ferrari took advantage of this and ran longer runners so lid clearance was my biggest concern. If its an issue I have a solution and im not worried about any hurdles its part of the fun! I dont have the ECUs and dont want them really, I have no intention of going with the factory management system.
     
  16. MS250

    MS250 Two Time F1 World Champ
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    Too bad, a little low for such a great engine to have low compression.

    I like the create m engine, nice project Paul , where did this new engine come from ? Is it easy to attain ?
     
  17. Marty

    Marty Karting

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    322 hp at the rear wheels with a 15% loss equals 379 hp at the flywheel. My '87 TR pulled 331 hp at the rear wheels on two separate runs a year apart. Allowing for 15% loss implies 389 hp at the flywheel. Both runs were 4th gear runs on the same Dynojet dyno. The gear used during a run on an inertial type dyno like a Dynojet will affect the results by about two percent. Different dynos will produce different numbers.
     
  18. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    There's a lot of variables to consider. Using .85 divided by the wheel HP we arrive at 378.8. The dyno shops usually multiply RWHP by 15 percent arriving at 370 which can be viewed as less generous. Either way its give or take 8 HP assuming the losses are 15 percent. I know the cylinder leakage is 11-24 percent depending on the cylinder. Pretty good numbers considering the compression and leak down results.
     
  19. willrace

    willrace Three Time F1 World Champ
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    HMMMmmmmmmmmm.......<thinks about a particular empty Boxer chassis about to go into paint booth>
    :D
     
  20. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Do it.
     
  21. LARRYH

    LARRYH F1 Veteran
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    WOW very cool .. just out of curiosity where did you find the M engine is it NOS..... What kind of price did it sell for does he have more ,,BEST OF LUCK
    LarryH
     
  22. Marty

    Marty Karting

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    It's fair to figure about 8% loss for hypoid, 1 to 2% for each helical gear mesh that's transmitting power, a few percent for windage, maybe 1% for bearing loss, and a few percent for tire heating and slippage, and CV joint friction. Add it up and 15% is a reasonable figure for driveline loss. Assuming this 15% loss figure, the correct math is to divide the RWH by .85 to work back to flywheel hp.

    When I first ran my TR on the Dynojet the fellow ahead of me was running a new at the time Mercedes AMG E55. He was very disappointed by the numbers. IIRC it made 285 RWH. Even with a locking torque converter an automatic is going to sap considerable hp.
     
  23. Newman

    Newman F1 World Champ
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    Tire inflation and how tight its pulled down by the tie-down straps on the rollers makes a difference as well. The only way to really know is to dyno it in and out of the car which we wont be doing, its just too much of a pain with the drysump and fuel injection. What I can say is its going to make a lot more power with the M engine!
     
  24. willrace

    willrace Three Time F1 World Champ
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    CUT THAT OUT ! ! ! !

    You're NOT helping ! ! :p :D :p
     
  25. Marty

    Marty Karting

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    Is it feasible to eliminate the TR's engine subframe and mount the M engine in a TR in 512TR/512M fashion? Custom adapters perhaps.
     

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