I saw that black car & having a black '94 as well, it lead me to believe that by Spring they'd be asking 500k for these But the truth is as I mentioned above- There are cars in the 200 range as well that keep the definition of the market very vague. I can tell you what most any other F car model is worth on average, but 512TR's are a mystery because the market is not clear as the price range is so wide. I wish those few cars in the 200 range would get sold or the owners would align themselves with the other cars out there, so that the remaining values would be closer to one another, in which case one could make the point that year, mileage and condition make up the differences as opposed to the wide spread we have now that elicits no reasoning behind it. As long as the market values remain undefined, it makes it very hard for any car to easily sell at any price point regardless of the car's best merits. And that is the point I attempted to reference above.
Question 512 TR owners, why on the 1992, only, is there the Testarossa badge on the top of the engine hatch ? Isn't the model just a 512 TR, it's registered as such, it's NOT on the 93's or 94's as you well know. Your thought's please ...
when i was at an auction this summer there were 2 clean 512 tr a red and a white one the highest bid was 150s and stopped
My take..the 512TR range..regarding all these crazy asking prices.. At < 5000 miles it is a blue chip collectable..most likely will not be driven more than 200 miles per year. At 7500 to 10,000 miles..the price drops out of proportion as you cannot call it uber low miles anymore.but most collectable for enthusiast driver. from 10,000 to 20,000...its just a used car... At 20,000 plus its a driver and sadly just a liability prone used car. At under 1000 miles it is museum quality..and worth 2 to 3 times more than a driver car. You can not deny..Mileage is single most important consideration.. Someday..25 years on...the higher mileage cars will be in vogue as they will all get restored and put on a shelf.. Anyone up for a cross country run????? in reverse gear???
But how many years do you need to wait before it can be registered here in the US? I know someone who bought a Japanese spec. '94 TR for low $100's at an auction and shipped it to Canada, but that car will sit around for another 5 years before it can be sold states side.
clean 94s are hard to find - took me 2 yrs to find mine and I wldnt sell it for any price Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Ok so all the Daytonas and 275's and 250's with 30 & 40k on their clocks must then be junkyard worthy? - I'm sorry I cannot subscribe to this line of thinking because TR's are desirable models and because as F cars age and become collectible, mileage becomes secondary, and so does accident history in extreme cases I think I might be willing to agree with this thought process if these cars were 3 years old, but not as they are past 20 years old It so happens that TR's are in a middle stage right now, but not far from collectibility An F car usually begins the collectible process at about 25 years old, and that is not far away There will come a time when 20k on the clock is meaningless, and even more meaningless when the number of people who desire these cars far exceeds the number of cars, at which point mileage is secondary. Ferrari is going the way of Porsche, with higher production-- and 12 cylinder engines are going away. There are cars with high mileage and/or accident history and/or rust etc. that are so valuable, any condition is worth having just to have the car. 512TR's have a future that likely will make them very sought after. I don't believe you can write off a car simply for mileage reasons, especially if there are low production numbers or their popularity outweighs the available cars in the market (same difference)
MoeD +1. I've had to address many of the usual issues described on this site on my 512TR and it has ~20k miles. When you look at what's wrong and the reasons why, I see the major causes are old and brittle plastics and corrosion of electrical components and wiring mainly due to age plus a few design issues. Often, replacing plastic means buying NOS (i.e. old) plastic to replace it. A low mileage 23 y.o. 512TR still needs to have the fan transistor swapped out after the first few uses, the electrical connectors will still need to be addressed etc. etc. if you want it in operable condition. Then there's the normal maintenance items. The low mileage car sure is collectable to some. Would I buy a low mileage 512TR? Sure, only if it was a bit more than a 20k miler... because I'd just drive it anyway and the paint and interior would be in nicer shape. Also, it's less likely a bad mechanic has messed about with it. As they age further, you're into paint and interior and more plastic and electronics and the miles seem very secondary. Other f-cars I own are at this point (44 y.o. and 46 y.o) and you're into serious age related issues: all soft materials are crumbling, rebuilding an engine/transaxle because every seal is leaking or remaking the wiring loom because the copper has corroded all the way up the harness... I'm not a museum so I don't really care about "museum quality". Regular buyers just want a good car they can drive for reasonable money with less hassles and obviously, that comes down to maintenance and condition. Mileage is no guarantee of maintenance or condition. For that matter, indicated mileage is no indication of actual mileage! I sent my Dino speedometer out for disassembly, cleaning and testing and was asked, shall we reset it to zero for you? Seems many do on a rebuild, it's all relative. (Maybe I'm just feeling annoyed because last weekend was the last one I could drive my 512TR... yeah that's it.) edit: As Tim discovered recently, the 512TR shocks will clog internally with bits of disintegrating plastic which is likely age related. A low mile car probably needs to have the shocks rebuilt... unless it's in a museum and not being driven. I should go and bounce the car and see...
Mileage is not irrelevant, but with age patina comes into play. Aside from the time capsule cars, there is a point where wear and tear becomes dominant over odo readings. Of course there is a correlation between mileage and condition, but that is correlation, not a 1:1 relation, big difference. I have seen low mileage cars that were tatty and felt worn from age, non-use, poor storage and/or poor maintenance, as well as high mileage cars up to 160k miles that could pass for mint. With classics it's often not as simple as a number on the odo; as long as the condition is good and original there is little deduction from it.
The truth is the low mileage cars that aren't driven don't have cause to be kept up or maintained When a car's been driven & things get used, they get replaced and maintained Generally a car that's been driven somewhat and maintained is in better condition as it ages than one that hasn't been driven, yet we all want that low low mileage car Mileage matters yes, but my point is that is doesn't relegate a car to being just a used car. I don't think any F car can ever be just a used car
I see 3 extremes; all mint condition: A 512TR with 468 kms for sale for around K$500 but NO one looking at it. A 512TR with 20.000 kms for K$220 and NO one looking at it. A 512TR with 150.000 kms and NO one interested .... So tell us what do you think is the trick Moe ?
melvok how do you know no in is looking at them? also by K what currency are you referring to? is the point of your post that no one wants 512trs? also are they 94s? mytoys is a good indication of where the museum quality cars are here. Or maybe he just has more money than God and didn't care, which still makes it a market trade. fwiw I don't think americans care much about buying cars from Europe - atleast from what I can tell I don't have any friends or dealers who are buying f40s from Europe. americans seem to what US market cars, rightfully or wrongfully.
you wld be a good person to offer a glimpse on the current market - your black car is for sale currently or recently - whats your opinion?
In a good economy My rule of thumb is whatever the highest reported price is of late Add 50,000.00 6 months later I have not had one inquiry The balance point is stalled at that previous sales position. The spring will bring another round of supply and demand adjustments.
K=1.000 No, 512TRs do go, two friends have bought one for approx KE 150 very recently .. and are extremely happy with them ... They were 92 and 93 ... Why would anyone get a museum quality car ? We need to drive them .... Not buying in Europe has imo to do with the versions that differ. Anyway it is stupid to pay more in USA than in EU for the same car.
Unfortunately the American versions differ from the rest of the world because of government mandates by the DOT and EPA regarding accident and pollution requirements and so unless a car is a USA version, most Americans won't be interested or won't pay full price. My '94 512TR is a Swiss market car that's been in the USA since the late '90's. I recognize that it's not a US car, but I liked the color and Superb condition- and '94's aren't easy to find- so for me, I had to make that decision, and I didn't hesitate when I bought her. but many people would. Plus I feel if I ever want to sell, I could just take it to a venue where there is a worldwide audience. I do agree the market on 512TR's is quiet right now, and partially because of what I posted earlier indicating the spread in market prices is too large, with prices being all over the place. I think the market on this model hasn't truly finished evolving like other F car models. I do feel a fresh Spring market will allow further evolution of this market & help to sort and define prices. Once people's viewpoints are more established on pricing, I think cars will move better in the market. And lastly- My car has approximately 20K miles, while my Boxer has 10k. I wouldn't call my 51TR merely a used car because of its condition and rarity, and for this reason I made my comments about mileage. I think mileage is a function of the model, the buyer and the budget. Additionally, as time goes on, 20k on the clock will matter less and less. Ferraris are cars of interest by nature- Is any Ferrari, even the less valuable ones, really just a used car? For me no, but maybe some may see it that way
May i correct my statement that above 10,000 miles they are just used car. There was a time when the250 GTO was just a used car and sold for less than 20,000 Time alters all prices In the case of the 512 tr imo A higher mileage car currently has a higher liability for loss due to maintainance worries And is more difficult to sell, hence they miander on ebay for a year till the owner accepts a lowball price. I am at odds with thinking the 512 or testarossa with high mileage will ever get peak prices in the next 25 years. Museum pieces have a built in head start that a frame off restoration will not be necessary Todays preservation processes and the original quality of these cars covers that. So , for now they are just used cars, 20 years on they will surely be rarities of much greater value.
nope. nobody can tell how much mileage a car has from the outside. if a car is valuable, then that value is only shaded one way or the other by mileage. you cannot have a situation where a 512tr with 9k miles is worth 300k and a 512tr with 50k miles, same condition, is worth 100k. thats a market out of whack and is not sustainable. forget using a gto as an example - 36 is not a sufficiently large sample. so use the gull wing. roughly 1300 made. nobody gives a damn what the mileage is -only the condition. and that is what sets the price.
Imo Collectors set the value not drivers. This market is very sustainable. It is based on pre 10,000 mile cars As we have witnessed An <800 mile car demands the highest price Currently a 50,000 mile car is unwanted. If there were not as many super low mileage cars The high milers would be worth more It bucks the trend of say a 365 or a 275 but it is what it is.
Heres a middle of the road condition car I looked at this weekend.. lots of paintwork...uneven stop lines sloppy finished edges on painted panels Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Someone with a nice Wall Street Xmas bonus and a penchant for yellow will pick it up. It's pretty flash. Sent by incredibly fast electrons
