Since I finally have had the clutch issue on my new to me Boxer fixed I have had a chance to drive it and compare to my 328 Other than similar appearances they really are different cars, I would describe the Boxer as an animal compared to the 328, it has a very deep loud wail, dogs bark, baby's cry and some women cower when I am hitting the throttle and driving by vs the 328 which is high pitched, friendlier and less noisy.IMO this is the traditional classic Ferrari that Enzo wanted and made, aggressive, loud and in your face, unlike todays sedated tame models. Something you really don't notice until you drive a 12 is all the 3xx series V8s have very little low end and no torque, they make a lot of cool noises but you really are not going anywhere until the upper rev ranges this is not so with the Boxer it pulls like crazy from off idle all the way to redline which is screaming incredible sounds, one other thing I noticed with the Boxer is instant throttle response up and down which makes very cool heel and toeing when downshifting , you really feel like Fangio, Bandini or Amon racing around up and down the gears. The Boxer also feels lighter in comparison to the 328 which it is since the 512BB weighs around 3080 lbs and the 328 around 3150, the Boxer has no crash protection which is one of the reasons it's lighter, bumpers are non existant just fibreglass covers that look like them, the same with crash protection in the doors, the hood and deck are aluminum so very light also. The 328 feels heavier and it feels the weight is spread out all thru the car, the Boxer feels as though the only weight is directly behind you which it is.The 328 feels more predictable with its transverse engine mounting and would not suprise you which a Boxer could easily with it's handling traits and weight bias and turn and bite. Road view is better in the Boxer, the hood sits lower so you have a better view of the road rushing at you and as far as comfort I would have to give it to the Boxer as the seats are much more supportive and padded and the interior is roomier, I could see taking a trip in a Boxer and being comfortable vs the less padded smaller 328. The only real thing that is a pain with the Boxer is the low front end, it will scrape on most anything the 328 was bad enough but it seems like a Jeep compared to the Boxer and when it hits it's the one piece front fibreglass bumper intregrated spoiler that goes back under the car 3 feet and you'll wear or knock a hole in it easily. Thats about it so far, the Boxer is going in the paint shop tomorrow for a complete repaint and will take a few weeks, I'll post some pics when its done.
Gary, No its the stock 4 piece exhaust, very heavy also. No cats just factory headers, my car is a carbed 78 full euro spec, Jeff
I would agree with how you describe the boxer, I own one too and have driven the 328, a beautiful fluid car but no similarity, if you think your boxer sounds good now, change the exhaust for a tubi, its awesome, and not loud when cruising but under acceleration its fantastic, the flat 12 really does sound unique, and it pops slightly on the overrun, hear it and you will be hooked. steve
In regards to the Boxer, I believe this is a debatable quote of Enzo Ferrari about the 250GTO, later stolen by Hummer. It's a Wolf in Wolfs clothing. The Boxer is one wild ride.
As the owner of a 365 Boxer, and the previous owner of a 512 BBi and 3 328s, I agree with all of your observations. The Boxers are exciting and feel much faster than a 328. However all Boxers are at least 300 lbs. heavier than a 328. The engine and transmission are just that much larger and will therefore weigh more. I have an owners' manual for the 512 BB (carbed version circa 1976) and it lists a "dry weight" of 1515 kg. or 3340 lbs. Add in fluids and the curb weight will be in excess of 3400 lbs. This is close to the weights listed in the magazine road tests of the period (June 1975 Road & Track test of a Eurospec 365 BB with curb weight listed at 3420 lbs., Oct. 1975 test of Motor & Thoroughbred Classic Cars of a British 365 BB also quoting the 3420 lbs. and the March 1978 Road & Track test of a US-converted 512 BB with a curb weight of 3615 lbs.) I think that the car just feels lighter because it has so much torque compared to the 328.
The weights are all over the place, the weights I quoted are from the FNA site and Mel Nichols book on the Boxer stating roughly 2750 for the 365 and 3080 for the 512BB, the added weight from the BB came from the A/C and electric windows which was an option for the 365 and a few misc items such as the dry sump, revised front end, 2" wider rear body work and 9" wheels. I have seen the reported weights around 3400+ also in some of the tests but these were DOT converted cars with bumper and door reinforcements along with exhaust mods and cats. I honestly don't see where the weight would come from on a 365 or 512BB, everything is very light on the car except the motor and trans about 700lbs. The BBis added some weight from the FI system components and additional alternator system. The 328 has heavy reinforced doors and real bumpers and most of the body is steel with the exception of the hood which is aluminum. When I get my car back I plan on taking it to a truck scale to see, I am sure the instant torque does make the car feel lighter but that aside the front end and steering does feel lighter in the Boxer also when off the throttle.
The bit I love most about my carb BB is the full throttle induction noise, especially inside a tunnel.....you can forget your 355's which are all rpm and exhaust, carbs are where it's at. I swear you can see the trees bend in towards the car....... It's like a LM car. I've got ansa mild steel sports exhaust. You bury the throttle at around 2500rpm in 1st, and just crack the windows open about an inch...take it all the way to redline in every gear....look out, you're doing 180mph+! (eh dad?)
I will agree to some skepticism on the consistency of Ferrari's weight (and horsepower) figures back in the 1970's. However, I do think that the engine/transaxle and the overall larger dimensions of the car can account for the weight difference. Anyway, I will be interested to see the results of your weighing exercise, because that is the only way to really get to the bottom of it.
I have heard the ansa system gives the best sound, not too loud and real old style ferrari noise. Does anyone know whether this system will fit a bbi and where to get one?
I believe that the Ansa Sport Exhaust is no longer available. I was trying to find either a used Ansa or Tubi for my Boxer, but had zero luck. Borla still makes one, but I don't care for the sound or the way it hooks up to the headers. You have to cap off several of the header outlet pipes to use it. I ordered a new Tubi and it should be arriving around the end of the month. I will post pictures of the install and a sound clip, when completed.
Looked at a Tubi, but they sound real loud, ok for the highway or track but not ideal for country stealth mode driving.
www.theferraricentre.co.uk sell a stainless exact copy of the ansa system, or they did a few years ago. They fit BBi with no changes, but if you only have a standard system you will need sports manifolds also as the outlets are different angle/diameter. that's the same for all BB's. Get rid of the paper air filters too if you can. They trap the crap behind the mesh anyway. Fit a washable sports one and the induction noise get's even sweeter.
London stainlesssteel exhausts will do any spec system you want for the boxer, I had them make a s/steel system for my Pantera about 6 months ago, the original system is also Ansa but in mild steel and rots quickly, they done a brilliant job, totally stock appearance, and you decide what level of sound muffling you want. When I was looking for a boxer I enquired and they quoted me £ 1960 sterling for the sports system which does away with the two smaller boxes, the boxer I eventually bought had a tubi fitted so i did not buy, they are at www.quicksilverexhausts.com steve
I too have owned a 328GTS and now own a BB512i. There is no comparison. The 328 is like a Kia compared to the Boxer in both performance and build quality.
Hi............. Great description of the "Boxer experience" !!!! Torque, torque, torque !!! Weight comes from the frame, which is a massive skeleton of steel. Check pictures in "Boxer: The Ferrari Flat-12 Racing and GT Cars" by Jonathon Thompson. Weights in publications don't mean a thing.....too many variables. Weigh your Boxer on a truck scale, with 50% of the fuel load for an average figure. Enjoy the "rocket ship" !!! Frank............23005 www.masiarz.net/bb_resource
yes, i have the ansa sport system on my bbi and must tell you the sound is fantastic. call dick fritz @ amerispec as he has some in the shop...if not , he will point you in the correct direction.
