488 Service - Turbo Failure, anyone else?

Great info.
2. How long of a cool down period would you recommend?
3. How often - time or mileage - would you change the oil in an exotic with a turbo?
Thanks.
T

 

Nothing particular but at +/-4000km motor was removed completely from the car by the official dealer to repair under warranty an valve cover leak .





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I suggest you call my dealer in belgium . They told me that turbo can be broke for lot of reasons , hard driving when car is cold, to fast to shut down the car after hard riding , ... , and for this they not cover it. I also ask so extended power warranty don’t cover it for the future, reply no.


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I am far from being a turbo expert - I just happen to have a daily-driver mass-produced car powered by a turbo engine. And I like to understand how things work.

In my 2.0T Audi engine whose design dates back to the late 2000's the turbo has an cool-down feature whereas once the engine is turned off the oil continues to flow through the turbo for approximately two minutes and then stops to lessen or - for all intents and purposes eliminate - the chance of coking. I can only imagine a much more recent and pedigreed engine like that in the 488 would at least have the same feature.

It's one of those fail-safe stratagems built into cars that are often in the hands of drivers who don't have a clue of how to care for a turbo engine.

Unless the OP's 488 was redlined day in and day out from the time it exited the driveway (which I suspect is highly unlikely), from my viewpoint this breakdown is likely due to a faulty turbo. Which makes Ferrari's reticence to cover the repairs under warranty all the more puzzling.

 

I always suggested to my customers, that when they knew they were going to park their car, to NOT make a high speed run where the turbos are spooled up, and then just shut the car off. Pretty much common sense, when you realize the turbo is extremely hot, and it needs a bit of oil flowing through it to get the temperatures down. I have a long uphill driveway, and instead of seeing if I can set a land speed record getting up it, I go really slow and not load my engine hardly at all.My turbo is hardly working at that point. Letting your car idle for a few minutes before shutdown, makes sense, but in the real world- who does this?

 

I’ve done roughly >300.000km in my turbo charged daily drivers over these last years. Never blew a turbo:

1) Drive slowly in terms of revs and accelerator pedal input, until oil reaches service temperature.

2) Allow 1 to 2 minutes at idle before switching off the engine.

3) Use the highest quality oil available, at precisely the recommended intervals by the manufacturer.

From experience, 99% of all turbo failures can be directly traced to:

a) Material failure when part was manufactured at the factory (air trapped inside the part, metal not properly quenched, metal contamination and other problems that lead to a part failing under stress and/or heat - a lesson learned in aviation for instance).

b) Negligent driving.

In the 488 case, namely with so few miles on the clock, I bet it’s scenario a). The natural downside of mass production.

As long as the 488 is under warranty, no harm done. If not, I think it wouldn’t hurt to buy a Power Warranty extension or self insure, if you’re planning to stick with the car for the foreseeable future.

Kind regards,

Nuno.

 

Many many years, it’s already not necessary to wait after good run, before turn off the engine. Because now turbos are water cooled, and haven’t very high temperatures, while running. In some cars, if manufacturers want it, cooling fluid runs in turbos some time after engine stop. (for example In new bmw m5, were turbos lay in the center of cylinders block, and very hot)

 

Yes I think like you . Material problem with this part. The passenger turbocharger (right ) was inspected and is like new .. It will not be easy but I love my Ferrari and I will go further with a expert to proof that a defect/faulty part .
Thanks to all


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FWIW, I had a second Pista come in for a driver side turbo failure.

Here is a shot of the damage found:

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Looks like FOD damage. Hard to see how anything would get in there, though, except for a broken piece of turbine blade.

 

As i see material casting flaw in the blade. one breaks then takes out the rest.

If I had a car company decline my warranty for "driving style" I would tell them that I drive it as they recommend and to prove that I had done otherwise. Prove it or honor the warranty.

 

Wow.

 

Steve, can you tell who the OEM for the turbo is?

 

It is my understanding that IHI supplies turbos to Ferrari,

Steve

 

THIS. I remember in my old Dodge Stealth, I would constantly let it warm up and cool down. Owned several turbo cars since then, including 3 now, and even after researching, there's really no reason to do that in engines with water-cooled turbos. I don't know anything about the 488, but I would imagine that in this day and age, the turbos would follow current manufacturing standards. Out of all the turbo cars I've ever owned, I have never had to replace a turbo, and most of them were over 100k when I sold them.

 

Had a friends who's 2017 488 drivers side turbo was failing. Instead of bothering with Ferrari he sent both turbos to Pure Turbos to be rebuilt. Cost was just a few thousand and turn around a couple days and he now has better and more powerful turbos.

 

The 448/Pista , etc have a secondary water pump that continues to circulate coolant after the engine is shut off, which makes it so that IF one were to run it hard and put it up wet, the turbo's still get cooled down...

S

 

IHI's are normally good turbo's, so something else is going on to cause these multiple failures, unless IHI is sourcing them from a far east plant. Not that Ferrari would want to skimp on quality to save a few bucks, LMAO.......

 

So Ferrari is just putting garbage Turbos in their $400k cars.

 

So what’s destroying these turbos? Getting on the gas hard before the car is warmed up? Manufacturing defect?

 

Steve's shop is probably the only one that has seen multiple failures, so it would be interesting to know if he's seen any commonality in the (2) failures.

 

LOL, I didn't say that.. there are plenty still on the road with zero problems! ;-)

If you had asked me after the 1st one, I would have said the cold start then full load , but this second one was after driving , still under load, but well after reaching operating temperature and having been driving for sometime .. prior to symptoms showing up. ( Loss of power, high pitched rotational whining noise, etc. )

What I can share:

Had around 1000 miles on them
Driven like they were designed to be driven
Had not previously been in for Service with exception to the initial PDI
1st car was one of the first Pista's we delivered
2nd car was delivered recently

I unfortunately did not get photos of the first turbo failure..

More to follow!

Steve

 

how long do you let car idle before you turn it off?

 

After a hard run, I would make a block or two at 30mph or so, certainly not under any boost, then come into my driveway and let the car idle for a minute or two before pulling into the garage and turning it off. Although this is most important for a turbo car, it's applicable to any high strung machine whether it be a naturally aspirated Ferrari, a race horse, or even humans. Any coach will tell you to go through a cool down cycle after a hard run.

 

Turbochargers are VERY reliable, They are watercooled so today it's no more mandatory to cool down the engine at idle a bit before turning it off: itìs better, but not necessary.

A turbo that fails after 10 k miles is not something common today: I still have an (oil cooled only!!) OEM KKK turbocharger on my 1983 Ferrari 208 turbo (with 65000 km, 40+ K miles).

488 and F8 turbochargers are the Japanese IHI with ROLLER bearings.

Portofino turbochargers have standard watercooled IHI turbochargers with oil bearings (no rollers).

As 488/F8 wants to offer zero lag and boost also just over idle RPM, they shifted to roller bearings (that is the standard race cars choice): they can have less play and so the gap between the impeller and its housing is less and so the efficiency is higher (= less lag and more boost at low RPM). This very low play means that if everything is not 100% perfect (or the temperatures go over the limit just once) the turbo is gone.

You can't have everything!

ciao