488 Pista - qualifying demands

Having watched the values for the last 8 years, there seems to be no value in buying new. There is just incremental improvements and new models seem to depreciate much faster than in the past.

I’m no expert, it’s just what I have seen.

The public does not know the difference between a 458 and 488.

 

All true but to be honest its the buying public that are jumping to order anything new with the cavallino on it. Just reread the Pista (was the 488 GTO) thread. As soon as a new model is discussed, folks are planning to sell their current one and getting on "the list" sight unseen. Ferrari really just waits for the rumors to circulate and the insiders to leak a small amount and they start studying the response and hiking the ask price accordingly. Its really pretty genious and happens every time (above the entry car).

What's fun to watch is the LE commotion. Its several levels of madness above it. The truth is of the 10,000 or more they plan to build a year, very few buyers will make any money and in a couple years the same car could be nearly half the price. And almost no one even really drives them! Still waiting to hear what they do about the reported dissimilar metal mesh problems if that's even what causes it. That's a much rawer deal IMO than having to lose on a lesser car to get on the list. Who would get shafted like that and then go back for more?

 

Completely agree and the 488 is not a better car than the 458. Different yes but not necessary better. Different cars for different people.

 

You took the right decision


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What's even more incredulous is that, presumably, these are bright, successful businessmen that elect to play this asinine game with the dealership/salesperson and help to perpetuate the situation.
It's as if all of a sudden when it comes to a car they become hypnotized and forget all about logic and are willing to be taken advantage of.
Maybe it's more money than brains ?

 

I've never had that kind of money, so I have no idea. I'm sure having over a million in disposable income to play with changes a lot of things, but I'd like to think I wouldn't fall for that.

 

I didn't take it wrong, Mark. I also always enjoy talking with you. Cheers.

 

This. It is everything. Creating the illusion or reality of scarcity value.

Ferrari are now a luxury brand associated with a publicly traded stock. The strategy is to sell just under the number of cars that keeps demand equal to supply with the standard production cars and to charge a market premium on the limited edition cars where they create the mystique of exclusivity and further limited supply.

As consumers we can go along any way we want. My choice was to buy a 458 at $100k under MSRP and drive it. Forever.

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There is a big assumption here that the people that end up with these 'rare' cars are only in it for the money. That is only a part of the story and for some, a small part. You might say it is equally shallow but some people just want the latest and greatest, some keep cars for a few months and want to move on to the next thing - if they can't have the next thing they have longer to wait and get grumpy or flighty, some collect and want to collect the nicer cars, some love to drive and the cars more in demand are usually the ones that drive best or are most exciting so both they and the speculators are chasing the same cars.

In fact the people who buy these cars because they want to use them probably see the financial side as a secondary thing - important still, but not the main driver. And it is those people who ultimately drive the market, even for the speculators - people who either want to drive or own the cars because they love them. The speculators are just a disturbance to that and I'm glad Ferrari at least try to avoid their customers being affected by them.

 

I have abandoned all attempts nor do I have the desire to plead with a car dealer to permit me the priviledge of buying a $300K vehicle. I have owned 10 Porsches over the last 15 years with all being serviced at the same dealer. 6 months prior to my dealer having any knowledge of the proposed 911R, I contacted them , informed them of this model which they had no clue about and put a deposit on it . I was the first on the list. After 3 months, the offical notice was made by Porsche that indeed the 911R was going into production with a limited number being made.My dealer contacted me with the news and he reaffirmed that I was first in line for an allocation. I told them that if I did not receive the car, I would never purchase another Porsche from them in the future. They responded with " Dont worry". To make a long story short, they contacted me 8 months later advising that they would only be receiving 5 cars and due to VIP buyers, I was 6th on the list and would not be offered a car and that my deposit would be returned. My relationship with Porsche was terminated at that point since the only models of which I had an interest were the GT, which now became clearly apparent I would not be offered to purchase.I sold my Turbo Coupe and Turbo S cab.

I already owned a Gallardo Balboni and now entertained the prospect of trading it in for a Performante. The buying experience at Lamborghini Uptown Toronto was the most satisfying and pleasurable in the decades of purchasing high end cars. The expertise, respect and attention afforded me was a stark contrast to my previous dealings. I cannot express my full appreciation for being treated so fairly and courteously.

Since I have only owned one Ferrari ( F430) I am a nobody at my local dealer. When I visited the dealership with my wife, enquiring about the 458 of which I had a genuine interest in purchasing, we were virtually ignored by the 4 sales reps sitting at their respective desks with not a customer present. My wife was totally turned off and after 15 minutes of browsing we left. It is a shame since I have a keen interest in the Pista, but I am fully aware that the prospect of getting one is non existent.

Happily, my car of choice is manufactured by a company and sold by a dealership that is a joy to deal with and offers vehicles to those who wish to purchase them.

 

Dont get me started on Porsche dealers. Their 918 VIP program is probably the biggest FU to high end consumers in the history of car purchases. I refuse to do further business with these jack holes.

 

The theme here seems to be that I lot of people are turned off by not being able to buy a new car. I've never been frustrated by that, as I have never bought a new car. I still don't plan on doing so. The only cars worth buying new are the same ones that require a monkey dance with the dealer that I have no desire to do. So far, Ferrari has been just as good as anyone else to work with when buying a used car.

Last year I met a gentleman at an AMG event who was selling his Aperta for $700k, I congratulated him on getting the allocation, and he looked at me and goes "I'm still not even after all the California's I had to buy to get it. Buying it for $700k would have been a little cheaper". Seems like a game not worth playing to me.

All that being said, if I had enough disposable income, I think spec'ing a future FCar would be fun, but I'd still probably rather spend that money on a better car that I didn't spec.

Start buying used and it'll spare your feelings. :-D

 

Yup, that’s how I bought my 16M and that’s how I’ll buy my Speciale.
No feelings hurt, no games with F dealers.


Sent from my 16M

 

I just want to say one thing on a personal note - I LOVE DRIVING AND LOOKING AT MY 355 GTS IT MAKES ME HAPPY

 

Geez, no one is going to be happy with Ferrari. There is another thread on here complaining about dealers making it easy to get a new 488 without waiting now.

 

So funny- just got an email from a Porsche dealership offering me a GT2 RS that’s available.

According the to email- “the deal needs to be right for our dealership”. Meaning we are going to tack on a surcharge so high that it’s going to make you cry like a little girl.

Lol. I politley turner them down. Not interested above MSRP was my response.

 

Was he only in it for the money? Do you know if he enjoyed his Californias and his Aperta? Frankly, to be able to drive a series of Californias and an Aperta, presumably all to your own spec and over a few years is a far nicer experience than paying over the odds for one car that someone else ordered and drove from new. It is worth coming out a little down for that, particularly if you are a user not an 'investor'.

I bought an RS that I paid over for because I have no standing with Porsche. Brilliant car but I sold it within 6 months. Part of the rationale (the smaller part admittedly) was that I didn't own it from new and had not spec'd it, so I felt less connected to it. Horses for courses, some people are not bothered by that and I have also enjoyed plenty of used cars. But, for now, I enjoy ordering a car to my own spec and for me to drive and do what I want with. Most to eventually be sold on but a few to keep.

 

Same here for the last 9mo, have said no. Several of us actually told local not to contact us ever again.

 

I will never pay over MSRP. If the car is not a limited production, why pay more than asking. Manufacturer should simply build more cars.

 

Come on, are you being serious? It's such a complicated thing. The massive investment in extra development and production staff, ramp up to max capacity then get rid of everyone when the economy slows and your reputation is in the toilet? And how do you fund the development of components and designs that work for a higher production level when there are so many other good uses of capital over the breadth of these companies with other model development programmes (especially now). You also need to build your dealer network and their ability to deal with used cars, service them all etc. etc. Slowly, slowly, catchy, monkey.

 

Porsche is getting away with it somehow as there are people willing to pay 150k over msrp for a regular production car. Ive had dealers tell me the GT2 rs will be a million dollar car.

I had to hold my composure from laughing out loud.

The same GT2 RS that looks like a GT3 RS that looks like a GT3 that looks like a GTS that looks like a Carrera.

Dont get me wrong, they make some wonderful driving cars but 200k over for a 2rs??? Just nuts

 

There is no excuse for Porsche not to treat the GT2RS , the same way they do the Turbo, GTS etc. All those 911s are built in quantities commensurate to consumer demands. Why not have the same process apply to the GT2RS? And what is the purpose of MSRP, when it is nothing but a fabricated figure that bears no correlation to actual selling price. It is tantamount to a starting bid in an auction. And if the GT3/RS is any indication, within a year or two, values on the used market for these cars drop precipitously. Concommitantly, this practice creates bad will and resentment towards the company on behalf of Porsche customers.

I wish I could find your argument more persuasive, but perthaps it is my lack of perceptivity, but none of it is intelligible.

 

I think one factor not discussed here so far is the economy.

We are nearing the end of an up phase in the economy. In such times companies try to "make hay" while the "good times roll" - hence the very aggressive pricing of these new high end models. Portofino's at $300K, 812's at $450K and Pista's at $450K to $500K are evidence of Ferrari pushing the envelope to maximize returns while they can. The next recession will lead to corrections and the whole process will start over.

My bigger regret with Ferrari, in particular, is that their cars are less unique than they used to be. Screaming 9000 rpm red lines with F1 like sound are a thing of the past for most models, including the Pista variants. Yes the V12's are still great but unfortunately they are limited to 4000 lb. models (812 et al) or super limited $2M models (La Ferrari). The throttle response and sound were more unique than the actual performance and all that is now gone. Plus they're using dated aluminum chassis design instead of carbon - which at $300K plus should be emphasized structurally in all their cars.

For all those reasons and others I fear that Ferrari may be losing it's edge, as well as true enthusiast clients. They have their legacy, which is fantastic, but after a while that can fade.

Guess we'll see...

 

The current situation reminds me of the early '90s... but I think the turnaround already began (all prices for used Ferrari are beginning to drop again), and unlike previously Ferrari is trying to make as much money as possible in the short time they still can.
I guess there will be bargains for buyers in less than 5 years time (not necessarily for me, since I began spending my money another way); but whereas in 1993 only speculators took the hit (because Ferrari had not outrageously taken advantage of the situation, unlike now), Ferrari themselves may feel the pressure by then.