488 Pista - qualifying demands

Because then no one would want a Pista or 812. Marketing 101. Make one less car than the market demands.

 

When you run a publicly traded company you have to grow and grow and grow some more, that means you increasingly let the marketing department drive, which also means you start doing more variants, SUVs, and the rest of it. Small and exclusive is not profitable, Ferrari would not be able to exist making the roughly 10k cars they make were they not for the F1 program, their engine program and their merchandizing business. So there’s a lot more of fluffy coming this way, guaranteed. Exclusive brands have to reach a level of commoditization in order to grow, otherwise they run out of numbers quickly.

 

Bit of sour grapes above, I have owned perhaps a dozen Ferrari from new and a handful of second hand. Never bought a stinker on request eg late Cali.

I go to events, support my dealer exclusively and go to the factory every 18 months, Atelier etc. Am not Uber wealthy and have to be careful. I have had 3 LE in 10 years (not LaF etc just the normal LE - no Tdf sadly) and guess that means that on liquidation my net depreciation (ignoring capital costs) is perhaps $250,000. You just have to commit.

It’s been cheaper than owning BMW M or 911s by far. $25,000 a year.

 

First, putting words in my mouth again. I never once, anywhere, said that the Lusso is depreciation-resistant. However, it is doing better than FF. The cars you are quoting are LHD (see a typical ad below, this dealer has more than one of these cars - second photo). From Autotrader the UK supplied cars are well above this level - Ferrari dealers are selling high spec, low miles, later cars around the £260-£280 mark and higher mileage 2017 V12s around the £230-£240k mark. The Lusso T is obviously less (around £220-£240k) but it has a significantly lower retail. (Also see screengrab of a used Lusso and Lusso T listing from the largest UK Ferrari dealer - first photo).

There are around 150 V12s in the UK, which must now include some LHD cars as per the London independent dealer’s ad, and around 40 Lusso T. So, you are correct in saying that a good estimate of Lusso volume is more than 500, it would be 150 cars over two years divided by 10%, or 750 V12s worldwide. (See first photo).

Pistonheads shows 20 cars listed, a more accurate figure I suspect, against a total of 190 registered in the UK so far.

I usually find facts helpful.
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A car salesman OK. But are you saying that stripper doesn't love me and I am not the best she has ever had?

 

It is possible she might not; but I am certain she is a biology major at UNLV.

 

How did you know?

 

Translation: the Portofino has not sold well. Dealers will say anything for hype.

 

I suppose if you want to read it that way. He has nothing to gain with me since I bought the 488 Spider from Tampa already. The red Portofino they have out front is really good looking I think. Seems like Rosso Corsa is a really good color for the Portofino. TWT on this.

 

Dealer just called me from when I was hunting 488 and went Lambo. Offered a stripper '17 488 Rosso/Nero with 1200 miles (but with good rims and LED wheel plus other decent stuff) with 18 month warranty -- has listed for $272, will take $228 if I get if off the lot by months end. The deals are coming early this year. I'm damn tempted to toss into garage--that's 458 money. Wonder if he'll give me a Pista allocation

 

It cld be. Uve taken too much crap for what was an innocent tidbit. My apologies.


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I could be very wrong, but IMO the 488 successor arrives with NA V8 and hybrid assist, sounds great and performs like a 720. In other words, a huge hit for Ferrari fans. The 488 is relegated to the bin at 458 comparable prices. Which shows how much the 458 is loved. 488 goes down as nice but not incredible.

 

Agreed.

 

Dustman....maybe true from a car nerds perspective...(all of us)....the 458 will hold a special place. Not for the bulk of the Ferrari buyers.

We nerds are quickly becoming the minority of Ferrari buyers. Most want the newest and greatest. Most want a warranty. New cars always win.

 

you are confusing asking with selling. As we all know, asking ain't getting. The actual sale prices and what is returned to the seller after the dealer's cut is generally obviously lower. I assumed 10-15% above.

Why would anyone think a bigger site such as autotrader is somehow less accurate? Because it doesn't suit your argument?
Sure there are 3 possibly 4 LHD that can be eliminated as non-UK cars, but hardly changes the point I am making.And many have been sitting for months.

So do I.

PS: FWIW, not sure if your Lusso annual production of 500 is correct. 89 cars in UK 2018 year to date which would translate to approx 120 for the year just for the UK. It is highly unlikely 20% of all Lussos go to the UK, I suspect the real production is significantly higher.

 

I think it will be turbo and hybrid and it will use the technology shown in their patent filing and reported on. It seems like it decouples the intake and exhaust sides of the turbo and thus, optimize the system for power and by functioning sometimes as an electric supercharger, so I think it can give you NA type sound- sometimes. You are talking about the big brother to the 488 and I think this car will have very large power- and very likely a price to match as Ferrari has said the car will have supercar rivaling power. The 488 successor itself seems likely to be a V6 single turbo hybrid. *IF* this is correct, then the 488 could be viewed as the last of the V8s in this price level. There will be those drawn to its greater power and newer features and styling over the 458. (I still love the 458).

 

I do not understand why there is so much claimed worship here for the 458 which to me was always lacking power
When introduced the 488 was only slightly more expensive than the 458 (EUR 10K in France, that was less than 5% more), so if the difference between the latest 458 and the first 488 is near this level it's not really telling.
Today in Europe a 488 can be bought for a little less than EUR 200K (about 15% depreciation in 3 years) and an older 458 can be had for EUR 125K (there are even high mileage cars for EUR 100K).
I do not care anyway, I do not sell my 488 GTB - I considered it but eventually I thought the Pista is overpriced (the change would have cost me about EUR 160K, and I don't think it's worth it).

 

the 458 has a soul. the 488 is soulless. i think that's what people are talking about and prices are reflecting it.

 

I have both a 458 Speciale and a 488. I get that people don’t like turbo, though frankly the 488’s turbo motor is fantastic. But soulless? No, I don’t see that.

 

I don’t think anyone would call a 288 GTO or F40 soulless but everyone may have an opinion

 

The defintion of "soul" applies only to living creatures- human and animal. It does not apply to inanimate objects such as a car. Therefore, what is actually being described when a car is ascribed to be imbued with soul?

 

not with you on this one.

 

5b
https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/soul


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By definition, the car cannot inherently possess soul. Although the inanimate object may impart emotion or sentiment to a human who experiences it.

 

I was accurate from the start. The 488 has no soul. Keep playing word games as long as you wish.


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