458 Transmission Failures

8300 miles on a 2010 - not a blink of an issue. Just FYI. Runs like new. Basically is.

 

Not covered under warranty?

What are you getting at here?

The warranty is 3 years. We all know that. If we buy a VW and 4 years later the box breaks we know it's our issue and not VW's.

What's your point?

 

Well documented where?

 

I am informed by Ferrari service that there is now a repair protocol for failed transmissions that does not require replacement. This is new; previously the only recourse was to replacement the transmission although the root cause was only a sensor failure. Cost is about 4K, not 28K. Still hefty but not ridiculous.

 

It is good to see a manufacturer stand behind his product. The beancounters seem to have taken this pride away sometimes. Reliability is more than something you need to get your sold product through a warranty period.

 

The same Getrag DCT is used in the SLS AMG (and probably other MBZ)...so I'm curious... what has been the root cause of the failures in the 458?

The shifts (up and down) in the early SLSs are comically slow - I wonder if MBZ knew something that Ferrari didn't.

 

I will tell you what I was told by my dealer. Ferrari of Atlanta. They have a tech who recently won a Ferrari SpA sponsored tech knowledge tournament if you will. He just came back from Italy where he competed against the winners from other parts of the world. In other words he knows what he is talking about. Additionally, FOA is one of only a few dealers approved to do the transmission repairs noted above. Thomas has repaired them all and FOA routinely does Classiche certifications.
I asked him this specific question as I have a 2013 spider which goes out of warranty January 2016. In fact, bringing car in for service on Saturday to do yearly and look for any problems before warranty expires. I am changing every fluid in the car even at my expense as not all are covered in maintenance program. I figure this is cheaper than spending the $9500 on an extended warranty. Will I save myself a big repair down the road? Doubt it. But, with the milage I do and the unlikely occurrence of multiple failures, I am passing.
In regards to the transmission, the history was explained to me as follows: Ferrari and Getrag agreed that any transmission failure to a car would be handled with a complete replacement. That is where the exorbitant cost came in. Once Ferrari did a few replacements and realized how much it was costing them, they started tearing down the transmissions to find out what was wrong. Apparently it was a sensor here or there or part of a circuit board. Each piece was cheap, but most of these parts could not be bought separately. All parts of various modules that could not be purchased piecemeal. So, Ferrari trained the few people it did in how to repair the transmission with the fewest parts possible. So, now it is a 4K or 10K repair not 25-35K.
Additionally, I was told that Ferrari/Getrag's % failure rate on transmissions is no higher than
what you see in their applications in other brand's. I do not know if that is accurate or corporate BS. I do know that rumors fly on this site and things get exaggerated. In the last year I cannot recall any extensive posting on this dilemma on this or any other website.
Best

 

I have a 2010 458 that I bought new. 6600 miles or so and no problems. So far concerning reliability it has bee a good car.

best

Lee

 

My understanding is that part of the benefit of a flat crank engine is that it has less inertia to overcome when quickly increasing and reducing RPMs. This allows a flat crank engine (like the 458) to more quickly match RPMs in the shifting process, which is particularly important for downshifts under braking. This allows the Getrag to shift more quickly when applied to a flat crank engine than a large displacement conventional engine (like the MB).

 

I don't want to mis-speak. When I spoke about my concerns regarding gearbox failures to the service department, it must have been 8 months ago. With time and anything you hear, something might have been lost in translation. My recollection was that Ferrari had a deal with Getrag. Somehow Ferrari felt like they were on the hook for too much of the cost of transmission repairs. That is why they looked at the source(s) of the failures.
In regards to the parts that failed, I am unaware of any "improvements" in the failed part. Likely one of those things where it is not common enough nor prevalent enough to assume a bad design. Rather, just a "bad" part. I lost a gauge cluster due to some weird failure. It would have cost 18K for me to repair. I think they had one other one at dealer over the past 4 years of 458 deliveries. My new cluster is no different than the failed one. Just a simple case of a bad part. I am told the trans falls into same category. When I had made the inquiry, FOA swore the number of failures was miniscule. I do not see why they would have said this unless true. After all, doing a hard sell on an extended warranty or trading my car while still under warranty (as I usually do) would have served them better than telling me my car (transmission) is not a grenade.
In regards to parts, they are having to replace a full board (for example) not a sensor that is why cost in thousands not hundreds. But this is less than the previous "full box" replacement.
Additionally, I was lead to believe that over time as everyone's cars go out of warranty, the smaller parts are likely to become available. Once repair is done non warranty, independent producers/independent shops will find a ready market. Getrag and Ferrari will be/can be cut out of the equation. Again, I cannot confirm this will in fact occur.
Your choice is of course to go with extended warranty that you can continue to renew each year at a cost of less than 4K (after first 2 year extension of +/- 10K) . The 4k or less number comes from a thread some months back by a dealer post. (Denver, CO ?) That could be your "cheapest" insurance against a transmission failure that will let you sleep at night.
I will see if I can find out any more specifics this weekend.
Again, best

 

The 458 DCT theme keeps coming up - plenty of threads to search and read up on.

1) some (not all) of the early DCT's (California and 458, and 458C) had issues with the internal electricals (wiring, sensors, controllers). It's true, I'm not sure anyone but Ferrari knows the actual number, but all evidence I've seen, it was a low percentage. Apparently it was aggravated by heat and vibration, so the Challenge cars saw a bit higher rate of failure.

2) at some point, Getrag revised the design, which to the best of my knowledge was sometime in 2011

3) at the time, the ability to diagnose and repair in the field was limited -so when they "broke", replacement was the only option. Usually under warranty, and always expensive.

4) starting in 2013, parts and training were made available to dealer techs to be able to do repairs, which are a fraction of a new gearbox.

5) I don't know the contract language between Getrag and Ferrari (or Mercedes), but generally speaking, if an OEM gets a warranty hit on a failed component, they can put a claim in against the supplier (eg. Ferrari can charge back Getrag) if the failure is proven to be the supplier's issue. However, a lot of supply contracts vary wildly in my experience, but I would imagine Getrag was financially incented to help solve any problem....

6) FWIW if any indication, our race team has done approximately about 450 "car days" and probably 100,000 track kilometers in the past 3 years, we've had exactly 2 gearbox issues, both were the $3-4K "repair" types. I usually extrapolate 1 track km = 10 street 10km. Of course, your mileage may vary.

7) said otherwise, you should have very little to worry about with your gearbox. If something happens, it's likely going to be a manageable repair bill. Of course, I'm a believer in extended warranties too....

 

Interesting read, thanks for the pointer.

I surmise that MB were just being extra careful with their first go-round on this DCT. That is proven out by the fact that eventually (and at long last) MB relented and offered a TCU SW update that *greatly* improved things and put early SLSs on par with the SLS GT in terms of shifting performance/behavior.

Personally, I opted for the TCU tune from Weistec which is at the SLS Black Series level (or better, if you believe the guys at Weistec). My personal experience is that the change was absolute night and day - worth every penny.

 

Really.... Both my local Ferrari dealership, FOSV and FOSF have told me they have NEVER had a 458 transmission failure!
And they sold thousands of them here in Silicon Valley.

 

I think there were more CA early failures than 458 because they got them first. Some kind of problem with the cable inside. Early 458's were all in Europe.

Some failed but Ferrari replaced all of them that I know of. Then they gave them a full 3 year transferable warranty on the new box.

If some dope puts on 500 miles on his car for 3 years and the trans blows, that's HIS problem IMO. He had 3 years to find the problem. If the car sits for 10 years is Ferrari still liable for warranty repair?

Nope. And neither is GM, Ford, Mercedes, etc, etc

 

First off, welcome to FC !

How many failures do you consider to be " plenty " , How many claims vs vehicles produced are you finding. I'm betting that % will be much smaller than you imagine.

To your point/question, I am not aware of any "... ongoing Transmission issues / failures .. "

Have there been internal failures with the DCT gearbox, yes... as any mechanical component will have, regardless of make or model. I have worked directly with BMW/MB/Porsche/Audi/Volvo and more.. each has had their share of gearbox concerns.

They are not " time bombs " , they are finely tuned high performance power delivery systems... < wink > That have proven to be extremely reliable.

As Entropy mentioned above and I can confirm via our own supported Challenge cars... they are driven hard and keep coming back for more.

I have 2 DCT transmission technicians on staff, each have been through Ferrari training, so we get cars from around the region... and still, I have only seen maybe 4 cars requiring gearbox work, in the past 5 years. One of which was caused by an Indi shop installing the wrong fluids, filled to the wrong levels, and not having the correct equipment to perform said service.

I have not had any of the above cars return for gearbox concerns after their rebuilds. are the parts new and improved? Or were the failed components just that, anomalies...

As others have mentioned, IF you are concerned, you may consider the investment of a New Power Warranty year to year, for up to the 12th year. There is a year to year discount if you continue to renew too.

I am more than happy to help, exchange e-mails, or even a phone call if you'd prefer.

I am also " The Dealer " who offers a discount on New Power Warranty to FCA and FC members.

I understand your concern, but I can assure you that it's not a wide spread concern as you seem to think it is.

LMK what I can do to help,

S