456M window seal gap issue NB not the same as the 456GT | FerrariChat

456M window seal gap issue NB not the same as the 456GT

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by au-yt, Mar 28, 2017.

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  1. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

    Aug 13, 2006
    5,838
    Burradoo... Actually
    Full Name:
    Graeme
    #1 au-yt, Mar 28, 2017
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I have been putting up with wind noise in my 456 and have been contacted buy another Fchat member about this issue.
    My car has been in a hot climate as evidenced by the shrinkage of the leather on the dash.

    First off lets qualify the situation so there is no confusion with the GT problem which allows the window glass to sit out at the top, the M doesn't appear to have that issue because of the different material used in the pivot pin.

    Where the issue with mine was a .1mm gap along the back edge of the glass to the rubber pintchweld seal. Beside of this I have been reluctant to wave a hose over that part of the car for fear it water gets in.

    I removed the inner trim which is held in at the top with a plastic fir-tree type press in retainer. these take a bit of persuasion but will let go

    The Seal sits on only a simple profile section of bodywork and is not double spot welded to another panel section. But is pop riveted to a panel along the back edge, youll see this when the seal and the trim are removed

    Remove the pinch weld away enough to expose the section with that the seal sits on .
    Taking a thick curved piece of timber slightly more curved than the and a decent hammer its only a matter of carefully Hold the timber on the edge of the retainer and from the inside out along the edge from the top to the bottom repositioning the retainer out in a neat curve, 1mm at at time refit the seal and check is is contacting all the way along. I had to do this a few times a small about at a time to get it right.
    An old school panel beater knows how this done the new guys have no idea
    The red lines on the drawing of the parts book refer to the seal retaining strip section
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  2. Lionworks Auto

    Lionworks Auto Formula 3

    Oct 16, 2013
    1,023
    Worthington OH
    Full Name:
    Ed
    If reading correctly, you 'reshaped' the metal trim under the rubber seal at back of window?

    Perhaps a different issue you having but I had the window gap at same location and it was resolved by having F1 in Naples rebuild the regulator with the steel pin. As I understand it - or at least with my 01 456M - the regulator is the same issue as the earlier GT's.

    Ed
     
  3. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,747
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    Brian Crall
    No production 456 of any date or version had good regulators. Ferrari started a free update program in a few select locations to install a kit to fix the issue in the 456m's which included but was not limited to a new regulator. There were issues with the kit and Ferrari very abruptly stopped the program. That was the end of that and we never heard another word from Ferrari.

    There was also an updated and much improved door surround seal but they are pretty expensive. Complete redesign of the seal in the door window rear edge area. It looks like they may no longer be available but when they were it was quite a bit north of $1000 each.
     
  4. F456M

    F456M F1 Rookie

    Jan 8, 2010
    3,696
    Oslo
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    Erik
    From my experience with my 456M, it appeared that the windows had too much a curve compared to the piece that the rubber seal was fitted to... Seems like you found a great and simple solution to a very irritating problem!!
     
  5. rgm35

    rgm35 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 25, 2010
    251
    Valley Forge, Naples
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    Rick
    Brian,

    Do you happen to know if there was an upgraded door surround seal for the 575 as well? I to believe the seal on the back edge of my windows is such that wind noise is a tad more apparent than I would prefer.

    Rick
     
  6. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

    Aug 13, 2006
    5,838
    Burradoo... Actually
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    Graeme
    #6 au-yt, Apr 2, 2017
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2017
    This is exactly my issue I was having and the seal was probably OK when new but 17 years later in my 2000 model the gap was noticeable.

    I just did 350Ks round trip in my car to AutoItalia Canberra in my car and I my wife's words, its just like a normal car its rather quite, except for the subtle Tubi exhaust sound

    The M has a different part numbers to start with and then the early GT has parts book shows there is a replacement part number:- "63209400 R.H. GLASS LIFT DEVICE - - Not as spare part now - Replaced by 63580200"
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Brian Crall
    I don't know. We never had design issues with 550 or 575.
     
  8. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

    Aug 13, 2006
    5,838
    Burradoo... Actually
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    Graeme
    May be the same issue applies to the 575. The door glass contour may be more than the frame shape.
    On the 456M it was 1mm and was visible.
    Having visited a Auto glass manufacturer and received an very in depth tour.
    It is a trial and error procedure to get the shape correct and any minor variation in time in the oven and temp of the oven effects the shape even when its in a support frame. With the "small" number of items made its possible for variations to happen.
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,747
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
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    Brian Crall
    Well that may be but the 456m 1st generation seal design was crap.
     
  10. au-yt

    au-yt F1 Veteran

    Aug 13, 2006
    5,838
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    Graeme
    Good Though however 456M seals are available to order @ $2200 US, or $3000 AUD.
    I am happy with my rework.
     
  11. Laserguru

    Laserguru Formula 3
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Aug 7, 2016
    1,255
    New Hampshire
    Full Name:
    Eric
    Bravo!!, Graeme. I admire a man willing to take off on panel shaping. Truly a lost art except for a small cadre of trained guys in the carrozzerias. You have become an old world coachworks craftsman of the first order.
     

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