456M Interior lights

My interior lights come on with the driver's door opening but not with the passenger door opening so I am curious about this also.

Kent

 

Keith- Here are the door wiring diagrams for the 456M. Surprised your dealer does not have them.

Taz
Terry Phillips
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OK, '94 RHD 456 here - puddle & door marker lights come on when each door is opened - i.e. open one door, the other side does NOT come on.

The light switch is in the door jamb, and not very obvious (on a dark car, mine is blu scuro). I'd be a bit surprised if the M was different - although maybe they use a proximity switch, or the switch is somewhere else? The switch appears to be remarkably similar to the door switch on an Alfa or Fiat of the same period..

Anyway, that's making the rash assumption that they actually made two cars the same...

 

The switches are on the door jamb and yes, they are tiny and difficult to locate, but they are there.
The same switch operates the cabin light and the door light, so if neither turns on, but you can still turn the cabin light on with its own switch, then the door switches are the culprit.

 

Keith- If you go to this website, I just sent Ben Deetman the WSMs for the 456 and 456M, and you can download them for free and root around and see if one answers your question. Not much in the OM on what the remotes do for you.

I assume the front and rear dome lights are turned on with the switches on the roof panel?

Taz
Terry Phillips

http://www.ferraridatabase.com/The_Downloads/Downloads.htm

 

Hi Keith, I have the exact problem on my M GTA. Did you resolve the door lights issue? Was it due to bad door switch? Thanks

 

So this is a non-M version. What do most people understand by the word "jamb"? The hinge side? Which version of the 456 does YouTuber Ratarossa have?



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His interior light switch is operated by a switch on the door lock end of the door.

Good to know, although I don't know if this applies to the 456M.

This is also good to know. I was earlier theorising that the immobiliser might have an input into the door light system, but I guess there is a slim chance that vibration from the door lock actuators is vibrating faulty wiring or switch(es). There is no mention of fob activated lights in the 456M workshop manual text. The wiring diagrams do show a link between the immobiliser and the doorsill light and the interior dome lights, but I don't know if doorsill light activation is an alarm trigger or if the immobiliser is controlling the doorsill lights.

Jcbam, does your key fob activate the interior lights?

 

Jcbam, does your overhead interior light switch manually turn on any of the door lights?

 

Yes, my keyfob can active the interior lights. Interior lights can also be manually turned on.
I cannot locate the tiny switch, unlike the above picture showing a switch hidden in the door seal. Anyone can provide a picture of the door switch?
The only microswitch I see is in the square door striker. Thanks.

 

Thanks.

So you mean the switch on the door frame (near the seat back) as in the photo in post #10? i.e. like the older cars. According to the wiring diagrams, these passenger and driver B pillar switches input into the Window ECU and the instrument panel (for door open indications). Also, according to Ratarossa, on the older cars, they control the interior lights. I don't see the light operating in his YouTube video, so, admittedly, this is hearsay. We really need more feedback from 456 and 456M owners (and, if possible, 550 owners).

Looking at the wiring diagrams, it seems like the red light on the door rear end and the white light on the doorsill have independent power sources and different triggers. Jcbam, on your car, are both red and white lights not working on both doors or are some of these lights working? If all four lights aren't working, it would be strange.

The wiring diagrams show the wiring for the white doorsill lights, the interior lights and the alarm/immobiliser system going to a common electrical splice. If this splice is earthed, it turns on the doorsill lights, but I don't have any wiring diagrams for the internals of the overhead lights or the immobiliser, so I don't know what signal or microswitch is providing the earth.

Perhaps if you can answer all of these questions, we could isolate the circuits and figure out the logic:

1) If your white doorsill lights do work, can you manually turn off the lights with the overhead light switch even when the doors are open?
2) In a darkened area, if you get someone to manually operate the interior light switch, can you see if the doorsill lights illuminate even with the doors closed? (Light may be able to escape).

Looking at the wiring diagrams, the microswitch for the red door light is inside the door. It's called the "Warning light control lock microswitch", which doesn't tell us a lot but it's near the door latch (inside the door). This switch doesn't appear to be directly connected to the interior lights, but it does have an input into the immobiliser and the immobiliser is linked to the interior lights in some fashion. This microswitch may operate when the door is unlatched (rather than opened a degree or two). We need someone to see if the red lights come on if the door handle is lifted, but the door is stopped from opening (in a darkened area).

 

I had a 1999 456M, and now I have a 550. When you unlock the car with the remote, the interior lights goes on. It dim on, not just on or off. When you open the door, they also goes on. When you shut the doors (both) the light is still on for about 5-10 seconds. If you lock the doors with the remote, the light dim out immediately. Both cars were like that. The switches are at the latch in the door jamb. At the same latch that the door mechanism attach to the door jamn aft of the door itself. There is a small black tappet that is basically the switch. Try pressing it in when the door is open, and the window should go a bit up and down subsequently as the switch goes in and out.

When you grab the handle, either inside or outside to open the door, the windows go down just a little. When you further pull it, you detach the mechanism so that the door actually opens. These are two micro switches inside the door that pre-open the windows a little for this purpouse. They do not turn on the interior lights. It is the bigger switch in the latch that actually turn the lights on when the door(s) are actually open. And both the red marker light and the white light pointing down goes on at both sides at the same time even if only one door is opened! Quite interesting, but I have noticed that on my own car.

I had a problem where the wire had snapped off the switch, and that wire on the 550 is accessible through a square hole in the frame of the car when you take the side cover for the parcel shelf out and look inside with a small light. If I remember right, the window went down a bit every time I used the remote to unlock the car even If I didn’t open the door! That is not right. Should be about the same for the 456 too (most probably).

Good luck.

 

A great writeup, Erik. I just wish I could match it to the 456M wiring diagrams. Note that there are differences between the 550 wiring diagrams and the 456M wiring diagrams, so there may be real variations between these cars.

So, in summary:
The door jamb switch controls interior lights, both passenger/driver door red and white lights and respective window.
The interior and exterior handles control windows.
Immobiliser controls interior lights. Does it also control the door lights? And do they have the same fade on, fade off behaviour?

Sound similar to the Euro F355, although on this car, I recall that only one door turns on both passenger and driver door lights. The other door only turns on its respective light. The USA car is set up differently.

Jcbam, does your interior light not go on with either the passenger or driver's door open?

 

@Qavion Thanks for your response. I couldn't find the switch on the door frame in post #10 on my M GTA. 1) my white doorsill lights do NOT work (nor the red door lights). But I can manually turn on the interior light with my overhead light switch. 2) I tried in darkened area, can't see any light from the door after manually operated the interior light switch.

@F456M Thank you for response. I will try to trace the "wire snapped off the switch" in my car thru "the square hole" tomorrow. If you have a picture, that will be super helpful. However, my car does have window went down a bit every time I used the remote to unlock the car. As you mentioned, it is NOT normal, right? does it imply that I have the "snapped off wire issue before the side cover"?

Thanks.

 

It may be the case. Don’t remember everything in detail. It is not at all logic that the window go down when the doors are unlocked with the remote. If it rains, the water pour in the car from the roof. If you open just the driver’s door, there is no reason the car should be wet inside on the passenger side. So that must be wrong. I also had some corrotion in the big connector in the door opening. This is easy to take off and spray with WD 40 or similar. We took it off when we took the doors off of the car when we repainted the car.

 

@jcbam Thanks for the feedback. It seems strange that you can't find the switch on the door jamb. I wonder if US cars are different from Euro cars? Sorry to keep asking this question, but does the passenger door put on the interior lights on your car? I'm having problems understanding how one faulty driver's door jamb switch could affect both sides (if indeed both sides are affected?).

Is there a timeout circuit on the interior lights with the doors open? i.e. if you leave the door open for too long on a 456M or 550, does the interior light extinguish automatically? (to save the battery). If so, one shorted switch may be forcing the system into a permanent timeout.

 

Just for information. The non-M 456's have a courtesy light time delay module (part number 153119). This is the same as on the early F355's. On later 456's and 355's, this was removed. The time delay must have been moved elsewhere. The delay may be handled by the Immobiliser ECU. So... worst case scenario.... a faulty Immobiliser ECU may be causing an interior light problem

 

Yes I am pretty certain that it turns the light off after two minutes or so.

 

It's been a long time, but the last electrical gremlin with my US spec 456M was that the passenger side interior light would not go on when I opened the passenger side door. It lit up fine with the door closed using the switch. I will have to ask the mechanic next time I see him, but I do remember we replaced the passenger side door lock as part of the solution. Once fixed, the car was electrically perfect and remained that way for the rest of the time I owned it.

 

Thanks, Erik.

If interior light control (dimming, time delays, and general operation) is performed by the Immobiliser ECU on the M car, I just need to find a link between the door jamb switches and the Immobiliser ECU. So far, no luck with the 456M wiring diagrams. On the F355, there is a direct input from the door jamb switches to a specific pin on one of the immobiliser ECU connectors. According to the 456M wiring diagrams, this same pin (11G-18) is attached to a microswitch near the door latch, inside each door. I don't think we are going to resolve this easily.

Windows, Doors and Interior Lights

Anyway, it's been a constructive exercise. I found a couple of errors in my F355 (5.2) diagrams related to this. Now fixed.

 

Thanks George. That opens up another can of worms (possible USA/Euro variations). On the good side, that seems to agree with my wiring diagram. On the bad side, jcbam may be pulling the wrong part of his car to pieces.

(EDIT: Having said that, I suppose it may be possible that your broken door lock was not pulling the door close enough to the jamb, and the jamb switch wasn't being activated?)

 

The door opened and closed just fine, and the window dropped okay as well, so I don't think that was the problem.

 

I don’t worry too much about these thing, but one rule that I NEVER overlook, is to never shut a door with the keys inside. Cars can lock themselves! It have happened to me on the 550 a few times. That is why I always leave the window open If I need to leave the keys in the ignition!