456 price trends | FerrariChat

456 price trends

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by ross, Jan 26, 2020.

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  1. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i have owned a 2001 456mgt that i bought in 2006 for about $120k, drove for 9 years and 24k miles as my daily in Geneva, and sold it for $70k.
    i bought my mother a 2001 456mgta in 2017 for $52k, drove it from the west coast to florida, and now she uses it as one of her dailies.

    looking at the market today i can see only a few for sale for over $100k, and i dont think that is an accurate assessment, but maybe i am mistaken.

    of course there is the first generation - manuals and automatics, and then the second generation manuals and autos. (for purposes of this discussion, i dont think we need to take into account the very few special editions apart from the schumacher 2 tone paint, and the ones made into sedans or station wagons for the sultan of brunei etc. )

    so, what do you think the market is for these cars at the moment?
     
  2. Laserguru

    Laserguru Formula 3
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    Others will undoubtedly have other input. Early 456 GT appear to be in the $65-90k range, distribution mostly clustered near $70-75. Later model 456M GTAs can go as low as $40-45k and as high as $70-75k depending on color, mileage, condition,etc. 456M GTs don't come up much for sale or very often. They seem to take quite some time to sell. Prices peaked (assuming excellent condition, colors, maintenance, etc) around $135k two years ago. Very slow slide down along with the rest of the market to roughly $115-120k. But there are signs they are starting in increase again.
     
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  3. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    u cant give automatics away. my mom had one she used as a daily as well
     
  4. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    i have an 03 456 GTMA with 4k mile....car has never seen rain and looks like a museum piece. i paid 78K maybe 6 years ago.
     
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  5. Fennicus

    Fennicus Formula Junior

    Apr 10, 2015
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    Pekka T.
    Wow, you guys have moms and they drive Ferraris. :) (Even if they are automatics.) That's awesome!

    I don't feel that old, but I realize my mom has been gone for 17 years (and dad for over 50 years) but she always drove a stick shift, manual, but still no sports cars ever. Only Volvo's, BMW's and a Renault in her final years.

    My 23 yr old daughter has driven our 1995 456 GT many times, but my wife does not want to, they complain about the clutch and how hard everything is.
    I love it and I like to say (having mostly driven Jaguars MY from 1950 to 1998) the 456 GT is the least comfortable car I can drive for 10 hours a day. :D

    Value? To me it's priceless, I got it cheap in early 2015, spent many weeks restoring the A/C, stereo and cleaning all the leather and carpets, a couple of big services (belts, headlamps, front suspension, etc.) and I would not sell it even if I got $75k for it as what would I then do with that money? It would not buy me anything more beautiful, fun or fast and yet comfortable to drive. The same seems to apply to my 1972 Euro spec V12 E-type roadster, I would not part with it even for $200k as again that money would not buy me anything that I would like more. :)

    In 2015 some 456's were around €30k euros, even manual cars, if they had some issues. I believe some cars went for spares because of that, some of the glass, the bonnet (hood) and powertrain can be very expensive parts. I saw 7 cars in early 2015 in Austria and Germany that were between €29k and €39k, all manual, all MY 1992 to MY1997. AFAIK they all sold before the summer.

    Still they made over 3000 456's in total, so I believe you can find one you will like, I mean love, if you are looking for one. Should not cost more than €50k to €80k.
    Colours, gearboxes and condition will vary. Anybody who has had one for a few years knows what normal service cost, but of course there are things that could cost a lot if you are not willing to spend some time finding solutions (the rear suspension, the stereo, the A/C, door and seat ECU's, the PAS, the fuel pumps, or valve guides).

    But it is probably not an easy car to sell if you want to sell fast, as many people don't even know it exists.

    Cheers!
     
  6. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    have you seen any for sale at cheap numbers?

    i have not seen a clean one without issues, on offer at any number below $100k now.

    sure, have heard that they are hard to move, but i have not seen it.
     
  7. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    auto ?

    i have seen a couple trade in the $30's......

    they are great cars (if you ignore the check engine lights) and the driving experience reminds me of the auto 928s
     
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  8. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    i have seen the low numbers too - but that was a couple years ago.
    is there somebody selling one below $50k right now?

    and i am not talking about some dodgy history, flooded, stolen, with 100k miles etc car.
    a straight up legit car with reasonable mileage......

    anybody have one to sell?

    to be clear, i am not buying. its just that the only one i see advertised is at over $100k and i want to know if this is indicative of anything other than the seller's delusion.
     
  9. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

    Jun 30, 2010
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    Ross,

    Eric and I track the 456Ms pretty closely. Most end up sitting for a while. Most six-figure sales in the last few years were very special three-pedal cars. In fact, I can't think of any exceptions. I think the price history available on BaT is probably the closest to market trend and current prices (https://bringatrailer.com/ferrari/456/). Hagerty's is a good one as well.

    Of course, we've been in the winter slump for a few months now, so that has to be factored in as well. That said, I don't see prices rising much in the spring.

    As Sheehan often says, these are "just used cars" now. He had a beautiful one for sale last year that I evaluated per another F-chatter's request. I was shocked he had it for so long, and ended up selling it on BaT.

    It takes a particular kind of buyer for them. Competizione has about 6-7 among their customer base. They're all like me - 60-70s in age, willing (and able!) to have it sorted, and have the quirky taste to want one. And most who fit that description have one by now....
     
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  10. arkferrari

    arkferrari Karting
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    Feb 9, 2004
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    I'm mid 60's, quirky and love my 99 456MGTA!
     
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  11. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    ok. but we still have not got much data going in this thread.

    lets start with the top of the tree - the 456mgt.
    is it worth this? https://www.autotrader.com/cars-for-sale/vehicledetails.xhtml?listingId=531456858&zip=77019&referrer=%2Fcars-for-sale%2Fsearchresults.xhtml%3Fzip%3D77019%26listingTypes%3DUSED%26sortBy%3Drelevance%26incremental%3Dall%26firstRecord%3D0%26marketExtension%3Dinclude%26modelCodeList%3D456MGT%26makeCodeList%3DFER%26searchRadius%3D0%26isNewSearch%3Dtrue&listingTypes=USED&numRecords=25&firstRecord=0&modelCodeList=456MGT&makeCodeList=FER&searchRadius=0&makeCode1=FER&modelCode1=456MGT&clickType=listing

    or is this wishful thinking?
     
  12. Laserguru

    Laserguru Formula 3
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    That car is priced quite attractively for its color, mileage, and obvious condition. Two years ago, that car would have likely been ~$135k. This car, https://www.hemmings.com/classifieds/dealer/ferrari/456m-gt/1933418.html, when last I spoke with them, had an ask of $135k. They probably would take less as they have had it for a bit over a year (if not longer, time flies...). But these are, as killer58 said, a few of the 3 pedal 456M GTs. If you don't know, I keep a register of 456Ms with a particular eye on the 6-sp manuals. There were only 93 that made the US over the 98-03 model time range so they are the special end of these cars.
     
  13. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    thanks for that.
    now we are getting somewhere ! :)

    so the 456mgt value presently is somewhere between 110-135k depending on mileage.

    now, where is the next one in line? is that the 456mgta or the 456gt?
     
  14. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

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    I think that range is far too high. Or 5 years out of date.

    Cavalino lists the ranges as: 456 at $60-80K and 456M at $45-100K
    FML: 456 at $47-48K and 456M at $56K
    BaT sales: $40-70K
    Haggerty: 456 at $35 - 62K and 456M at $46-111K

    From the data, one could be tempted to see $100K+ for a concours three-pedal. But I'm not aware of any actual sales at that level in the last two years. Eric?
    The pozzi car at Hubbard has been for sale since at least last summer. In 2015 it would have sold for that. Not now. Despite it's condition and low mileage, that dash and steering wheel color will hold it back.
    The Hilfiger car has been for sale for over TWO years. Same issues.

    https://bringatrailer.com/listing/1995-ferrari-456-gt-8/ - This car had two guys in a minor bidding war. Result was a still surprisingly low, the green color probably held it back despite it's condition.

    I think you have to focus on the potential buyer and the demand side of the equation. In my view, buyers will fall into two general camps; those like arkferrari, Competizione owners, and myself. But we all have one. There can't be many more like us who are looking. Second are those who are status-seekers and just want to claim they own a Ferrari. There's a lot more of them, but they can't afford the sorting or upkeep. Lastly, there's the fact that the newest of these cars are now approaching 20 yrs old. In general, there just aren't many people who want a 20 yr old car, regardless of mark.

    Today, I think it would take both a unique buyer and a truly phenomenal car to get anything higher than $80K.
     
  15. henryr

    henryr Two Time F1 World Champ
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    last i saw gullwing scooped up a couple GTAs cheap. bid low and often for an auto
     
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  16. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    can people post the cars they actually see for sale right now please.
     
  17. Laserguru

    Laserguru Formula 3
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    About 5 months ago, a '02 456M GT in nice colors, 18k miles, well looked after car changed hands for $121k. That is the established high end at the moment. The car also had all provenance documented and an unbroken train of service records. So if you check ALL the boxes, $120k is the present capstone.

    I agree with killer about the pool of buyers. These cars are the very definition of a "special interest" car. Gullwing has a couple of low end examples, one can search and watch assiduously and find 456 manuals and depending on condition, give $60-$80k and have a really nice car. And finally, the US is a bit of a different case with regard to the 456M 6-sp. Only 93 came here over the 98-03 production run, a few have been lost to the vagaries of life in the wild, leaving something like 85 cars out there. They are all owned by folks who really meant to have one. Thus, they very seldom show on the market, move slowly when they do (like the two we have been discussing), and price to change hands is more a gentlemen's agreement between willing seller and willing buyer than any market assessment.

    If you want to buy a low mileage, late model 6-sp M, you would have to raise your hand in a forum like this and hope one of the present owners contacted you. Just as an example, if you wanted one in red, you're going to have to talk to one of three guys.

    killer58 is right. It is a unique buyer who wants one, especially at the high end. Maybe some of the low end cars go to folks who really want a V12 and can afford $60k rather than $120k for a 550/575. (Almost the "same" car at half the price).

    With roughly 85 6-sp Ms out there, every car is a story. Maybe rare in color for the model (ex red), rare in having contrasting insert Daytona seats (5 cars), or just rare because everything works (!!). Its a niche!
     
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  18. Laserguru

    Laserguru Formula 3
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    https://www.dupontregistry.com/autos/results/ferrari/456/all/refine?pagenum=1&perpage=10&sort=dist_asc&zipcode=03064&inv=false

    This array of duPont Registry listings pretty much covers the gamut of 456/456M, sticks and autos. Even has a M stick in Giallo which I hadn't seen listed before. Add the Hubbard and Carriage House cars and I think you have the majority of what is available at the moment.
     
  19. Laserguru

    Laserguru Formula 3
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    Confessions time: 64 years old, have had car disease since 14. First car I ever drove was my brothers 1968 Camaro Z28. Took both legs to push in that clutch! Have raced Alfas, Porsches, and Formula Continentals (96 Van Dieman). Have >230k miles on my M3 sedan, an '06 CaymanS which was one of the first brought into the US, and the fifth to last 456M built. TdF, Tan Daytona seats with Blue Scuro inserts, dash and steering wheel. Extra set of 18" HRE 547 wheels so I can buy decent tires for the car besides the stock 17" wheels. Yup, quirky tastes.
     
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  20. killer58

    killer58 Formula 3

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    Eric,
    I can't seem to invite any more folks to our private 456 conversation where Ross could get access to our spreadsheets and tracking data.
    Else, Ross send me a PM and I'll give you what we have.
     
  21. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #21 ross, Jan 28, 2020
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2020
    thanks for that link.
    so the mgt's are still roughly double the mgta's. and there seems to be only 2 for sale in the usa and they are both at 125k
     
  22. Laserguru

    Laserguru Formula 3
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    I haven't been able to add others to that conversation either. Not sure how to do it. But I'd happily add him or have Ross PM me as well. I can share the updated file listing both autos and 6-sps.
     
  23. Laserguru

    Laserguru Formula 3
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    Pretty much correct. Lots of variables on mileage, color, condition, provenance, service history, etc. but the fundamental is gated 6 is ~2x auto.
     
  24. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Bought my '01 456M GTA - one of two in Rosso Corsa in the US - with 7,069 miles on it for $72K in '12. Sold for $95K in '18 with 32K miles and $35K in restoration receipts.

    The car had the Daytona interior and Shields, with black dash and black contrast stitching. The other red one had base seats and no shields (I saw it for sale recently).

    So it depends a lot on the desirability of the individual car. Boring color automatics - sorry - are boat anchors at present. Manual M's are worth about $125K+.

    Don't follow the pre-M cars because I have no interest in them - sorry again. :)

    It is a magnificent car and perfectly sorted out, but I don't know who has it now.

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  25. ross

    ross Three Time F1 World Champ
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    as much as i appreciate different colors, i also dont think the 456 looks good in red or yellow.
    its an individual preference i know.

    i did like that green one.
     

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