456 Front Cover Gasket, T-belt Replacement & Cam Timing | FerrariChat

456 Front Cover Gasket, T-belt Replacement & Cam Timing

Discussion in '456/550/575' started by mcypert, Aug 24, 2014.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #1 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Dear Gents:

    Thought I’d post a thread about what is involved to do the thread title. Most info is already here, but there are a few differences that I found….

    This thread applies specifically to a 1995 456 GT, but should be good for all V-12’s, except for valve timing (which is well documented for the 550 in the first two threads below, but is different for the 456).

    First, start with these posts from moorfan (Pete), rmfurzeland (Ron) and deanhalter (Dean):

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/334008-1998-550-maranello-sorting-thread-diy.html

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/393292-550-engine-removal.html

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/265723-456-belt-service.html

    You’ll learn almost everything you need to know from these threads. Oddly, I found no info on how to just replace the front cover gasket…. And….. that’s because it can’t be done unless you know how to do all the other stuff…….As our cars ascend into the 20 year old range, I wouldn't be surprised if this gasket becomes a more common problem….

    Let me backup…… A little over a year ago, my cousin invited us to dinner at her new home in Memorial. Great time, and although she decline to actually drive the F-car, she got us to take pics of her in it for facebook or whatever is in vogue these days….. Got an email from her the next day to the effect, “You’re car is beautiful but left an oil stain on my new driveway….” I assured her that it was virgin Ferrari oil and a little laundry detergent would remove it….

    In reality, I was shocked my 17K mile museum-piece was leaking oil and I set out to find why…… (I know, too much drama…. Trust me…. You’ll get more technical data than you’d ever wish for…. I’ll also break up the thread, which might make info easier to find…. I've kept an email record of most of what was done…)

    When I examined the leak last year, I found a little oil dripping down the front cover. I assumed (we all know what that means), it was the main front seal…. and replaced it. I was wrong…. The first pic below shows what ultimately turned out to be the culprit; the front cover gasket….Note, the elongation of the gasket…. Note also, the red arrow where I tried to seal it in place with RTV sealant…. Only on removal did I know the Grand Canyon size gap that had grown between the cover and the block. Also, THAT passageway feeds oil to the heads at 70+ psi…. Had I know that, I’d never have attempted anything less than replacement.

    Anyway, tightening the nuts and screws on the cover got me through another year, including a roundtrip to Dallas (I’m in Houston.). I never had to add oil, so this was not a bad leak; just one I couldn't stomach and had to be fixed.

    Last pic shows where the leak was on an exemplar pic of Ron’s engine with his cover removed.

    Before I proceed, thanks to everyone who posts this stuff and shares their knowledge, including those above and FBB (Carl), Dave Helms, Rifledriver (Brian), ferraridriver (Dave), 166/456, Stefono, Bradan, Barry, Alfredo, Taz and the many others…

    Special thanks to Houstonians, Cribbj (John) and rmfurzeland (Ron), who’s emails got me through this……

    Regards….
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  2. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #2 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    So, here WAS my plan of attack (Hold your comments….This is NOT how I eventually did it!):

    1. Remove the power steering pump (P/S) and move out of the way.

    2. Loosen the 36mm crank pulley/harmonic balancer (HB) bolt. (This has been discussed before and my methodology has been somewhat disliked by the "experts"). See: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/435880-rh-lh-thread.html That post has various ways to remove the HB.

    3. Find TDC, turning the crank by hand. (I planned to either leave the HB on or, take if off and just put the bolt on with washers as shown in Moorfan's pics.... which Brian says can screw up the timing of the helix gears.) I planned to use the depth gauge on my digital calipers to find TDC through the sparkplug hole on cylinder #1. (Hint: you can tell TDC compression vs exhaust by the pressure from compression. If you remove the cam covers, you can tell by the cam lobe position…. Another reason to take off the cam covers.)

    4. Reinstall the HB, if removed, and mark TDC.

    5. Note and mark TDC marks on the cam pulleys. I also knew this wouldn’t guarantee that the assembly marks on the camshafts will be perfectly aligned, but all I was trying to do is get the timing to the same precision as it was before. Frowned on, I know.......but I was trying to avoid removal of the cam covers, etc....... See first pic.

    6. Now the tricky part...... I planned to mark and note the cam-belt drive pulleys (green lines on second pic) with the hope of getting them to go back in as they came out after removing the front cover. I’d also count the teeth on the timing belts between the marks on the drive and driven pulleys for further reference.

    7. Loosen the cam pulley bolts, labeled "2" in the third pic (planned do this before marking everything at TDC, which was fortuitous). Remove the timing belts after locking the tensioner in retracted position and locking the cam pulleys.

    8. Remove the small cover on the oil pump and pull the sprocket on the oil pump.

    9. Remove the front cover with cam drive gears attached "en banc", as Moorfan called it, or as an “ensemble”. See 4th pic. I was not going to remove the cam-drive pulleys or the recessed nut, requiring the special tool. That would make things a whole lot easier, as I understood the outside shafts would not easily come out of the bearings on the cover.

    10. Replace the front cover gasket and reassemble, hoping the cam drive pulleys mesh right and pulley marks line up. (I could practice this several times before using the new gasket and RTV.) But even if they didn't line up precisely, I would have all my other marks and tooth counting.

    11. Refit new timing belt…. I understood this may be easier said than done.....

    12. Clap the belt to the pulleys, remove the already loosened camshaft pulley bolts, and their dowel pins. Lube the camshaft ends and fit pulleys w/o pins.

    13. Here's where I had my doubts........ You're supposed to be able to release the belt tensioner and the cam pulleys will just slide on the camshafts while the camshafts stay in place, in other words, we expect the pulley to move but the camshafts to stay still. (This is actually easy and shouldn’t be a concern…..)

    14. Fit the dowel in the appropriate hole. Repeat for other cylinder bank and tighten bolts "2".

    15. Crank by hand through 720 degrees and tighten bolts "1".

    16. Check belt tightness. (For me, and apparently FBB, I was thinking hand feel is probably the most reliable.... no one seems to agree on what the vibration frequency should be.....??????)

    That Was the plan…When I got to #7, loosening the cam bolts, all hell broke loose….

    Read on and don’t make this mistake…..
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  3. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    When I tried to loosen the cam bolts (2), I used a torque wrench. I kept setting it higher and higher until, I think, it was at over 100 ft-lbs. I marked the pulley and the belt just in case I slipped a tooth. By the third bolt, an intake cam, I figured that was no longer necessary. The wrench clicked and I wasn't sure what happened…. Did the wrench click or,,,, Did I slip a tooth? I did it again and, Yes, I slipped a tooth…..Now, I wasn't sure where I was at???

    I reversed the torque wrench and forced the belt back two teeth. Could I be sure I had set the cam timing back as I found it?…… Well no…..

    To put this in perspective, each tooth is 13.3* of cam or 26.7* of crank, so it’s not going to take much to confirm our “Interference” engines’ namesake, i.e. dinged valves…..

    Moral is: do as Moorfan did and use an impact, although, I’m not sure that can be trusted either. Or, do as I did after the fact and lock the old belt on the cogs with vise-grips and then carefully loosen the bolts. But, always mark the teeth…

    Now, if you didn't do as I did (i.e. skip one or more teeth), you can skip the next post. IF, however, you find yourself in this predicament (I understand I’m not the first to do this!), there’s some fancy math that will tell you if you just bent your valves and where your valves are positioned relative to the pistons.

    Either way, I’d suggest, as Ron/rmfurzeland advised me through email when I started this adventure, bite the bullet and remove the cam covers…. I was hoping not to have to do this mainly because there had been a major on this car about 3000 miles ago, cam timing, valve adjustment, new bearings and seals, the Works…But, my advice to the first-timer would be to get those cam covers off, so you can be sure you can see what’s going on…

    I’m just lucky I wasn’t at TDC-exhaust when I slipped these teeth….
     
  4. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #4 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Okay, here’s what you can do if you skipped a tooth or just think you might have but haven’t moved the crank….

    Some genius postulated a ways back you might can skip 3 teeth and still not cause interference. See post # 10 at: http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/456-550-575-sponsored-bradan/375756-thoughts-timing-belt-issue-newby-buyer.html

    Not so sure about that anymore… Here’s where I was at…….. I didn't know where my pistons stopped relative to TDC. When I removed the cam covers, I knew that cylinder # 11 was the only one that I had rotated the intake valves to a more open position. (See first pic for cylinder numbering…. much to my surprise, the #1 cylinder is not the most forward!) And, I wasn't sure if I got the belt timing back to the right position or not. IOW’s, I just treated the cams as if they were off a tooth or two and wouldn't move the pistons/crank until I knew they were not!

    Anyway, there are two ways to estimate the position of the valves relative to the pistons if you find yourself at an unknown crank degree and unknown clearance from the piston crowns (Again, this is included because I've heard I’m not the first to be in this predicament.) :

    1. Estimate the crank angle and distance from interference based on distance from TDC-exhaust. See second pic. Once you remove the cam covers, you can tell whether you’re at TDC-compression or TDC-exhaust….. Compression is lobes butterflied up and exhaust is lobes down! In my case it was 46* ATDC based on rod length of 127 mm, stroke of 75 mm and an estimated depth to bowl of 131 mm(the actual # is 137-138mm). Anyway, that left 10 mm or better for the intake valves. I was more than happy to use trig to figure this out….. but when I Googled for some trig functions, I just got drag and click triangles that gave the angles….. Rats, where’s the fun in that……See: Relationship of side lengths and angles of a triangle - Math Open Reference See third pic for what I got….

    2. Measure the relative distance between two cylinders. This also takes some fancy math and knowing there’s 120* difference between adjacent cylinders….. I treated the two as a four bar linkage with one side fixed…… See fourth pic... Again, my fancy math failed me because you can also do four sided polygons on the above website… Just keep the piston stroke horizontal or vertical and you can generate the angle of the connecting rod C.L. for the deeper piston. The rest is simple geometry and trig and knowing the pistons are 120* apart on the crank…

    I know this sounds extreme, but if you find yourself with possibly two slipped teeth, you can’t move the crank even a mm until you have some idea of the crank angle. The only other option is to take out the camshafts, closing all the valves. Once you know where you are, you can then decide whether it’s safe to move to TDC and use the reference marks. Otherwise, you’ll need to remove the cams and still won’t know if you had interference without a leakdown test, so I’m told....

    I now know, having been able to rotate the crank, exactly where the piston #11 was. It was 152 mm from the 138+/- mm bottom of TDC (see second pic). So the actual distance from TDC was 14 mm, give or take…. Plenty of room for the valves….Both methods predicted this, again more or less…

    If you've actually read THIS post, You’re probably already in trouble….. I told you to skip it unless you think you have skipped teeth…. On the other hand, you just learned Ferrari’s screwy cylinder numbering system, where by most traditions # 12 would be #1…. Now you know…...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  5. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #5 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Okay, after verifying I hadn't dinged my valves and knowing I could safely move the crank, I could proceed… Of course, at this juncture all my plans for a quick and dirty Lock & Swap were dashed…. This roughly doubled the time involved with the removal of the air boxes, TB’s, MAF’s, linkage, EGR system, etc., etc., etc. And, required me to repeat all the work just done on this car 3000 miles earlier.

    On the bright side, completing a “Major” meant it won’t have to be done for a while and you have the piece of mind of knowing the stuff under the cam covers is right… Also, gives you the opportunity to clean the TB, MAF and electronic connections…

    So now it was on to find TDC for cylinder #1. BTW, #1 is front on the passenger’s side- LHD. I used the depth probe on a digital caliper and, with careful technique, could get repeatable reading to .01 mm. For those that didn't/wouldn't/couldn't read the last post, I’ll repost the relevant head cross-section. See first pic…

    Suppose this will vary, but I got 137.40 mm as the depth from the top of the head to the bottom of the piston bowl at TDC for the 456 GT. Not knowing this measurement or a reasonable approximation of it makes for a long and tedious search… (Later verified this with a .001” dial gauge…which makes finding TDC easier if you have a very good frame setup, which I didn't…)

    And, guess what, the marks on the HB line up perfectly with the center of the water-pump pulley nut. See second pic. This must be verified everyone says, because you can’t be sure…

    And, further “guess what”, the reference marks on the cams and caps line up….. well almost….See 3rd and 4th pic.

    FBB figured out how big the error in timing there can be with just this small variance shown in the fourth pic… 2-3*, I think… So, everyone says you can’t rely on these either! Rats…

    So once you have TDC, you can remove the belts…. This is well documented by Pete, Ron and Dean, so I wouldn't repeat.

    However, a couple of tips. I didn't find removal of the radiator or A/C necessary, but removing the PS pump pulley and bracket is made easier if you remove the driver’s side (7-12) air filter box. Two gooey 10 mm nuts underneath and a 10mm nut on top will do it. Also, removing the big rad hoses, the air pump filter, EGR evap system, and some of those electrical components mounted near the bottom of the rad, is well worth it. Removing the PS bracket, the cam sensor screws and loosening the alternator are some of the worst chores, not necessarily in that order.

    One more tip: Brian says you shouldn't move the crank with the HB removed. I didn't but did loosen the bolt. After you find and set TDC, you have to get the HB off and you've been tightening the bolt to turn the crank. With accessory belts set very tight, you can clamp and brace the P/S and A/C pulleys w/ vise-grips and loosen the bolt without moving off TDC. Sorry I didn't get a pic of this, but you should get the idea…
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  6. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #6 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I had originally planned this as a Lock & Swap. That meant the driven-cam gears had to go back in exactly as they came out. If they don’t, you have a better shot of winning the lottery than matching the cam timing. You see, each gear tooth you’re off is about 5* for the gear. See first pic… Not sure how many teeth on the fenced cog…. say 20…. You’ll always be some fraction of a belt tooth off….. Comprende???… You will never get the exact match required for a lock and swap…. Anyway, this is worth doing whether or not you’re timing the cams… Either way your timing will be closer…

    Now, this had never been attempted by a human, much less a lawyer, so I was flying without a compass…. So, I etched marks in the fenced cog and front cover. See pic #2.

    I later calculated (based on how the helical gears meshed up and those 33 mm and 44 mm figures shown in the second pic) you have to re-install the cover with the cog marks, each of them, about 4.5 mm CCW from the cover mark to achieve an exact alignment when you press the cover back on. Any fool can tell the difference between 4.5 mm and 9.0 mm (where the next gear tooth would be), right???? You’re either going to be one side or the other, right??? …. Well, maybe not …. We’ll see…

    So with precise marks made on the fenced cog and cover (I used a tiny Dremel-type cutting wheel), the next step is to remove the cover. Again, others have described how this is done, but in essence, you take off the small cover and get the chain and sprocket off the oil pump. There are only two screws (one on the oil pump sprocket and one on the chain tensioner) you can get to in there and you remove both. You can’t remove the chain and sprocket….just get them loose so they come out with the cover. The sprocket on the crank just slides off while inside the cover.

    So you just pull the cover off, right?…. Wrong! Funny thing, the stuff other people thought was easy, like removing the cover with cam drive gears attached, I thought was impossible. And, the things they thought were hard, like the cam cover gaskets and T-belt fitting, I thought were easy…..

    My cover, the big one, wouldn't budge…..I consulted my Houston friends and they were perplexed…. Kept thinking it was the oil pump chain or sprocket……It wasn't…..

    What to do???
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  7. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #7 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Nothing seemed to release the front cover… pounding, pulling, etc. I eventually became convinced it was that the inner shafts of the cam-drive gears were stuck in the inner bearings. I even came up an idea to remove the fenced cogs and making a custom puller, braced against the crank and the water pump (there's a little horizontal ridge on the bottom of water pump that's close to the same distance from the cover as the end of the crank) that uses the external shafts to make the pull.. See pic #1 for a rough sketch of a birds eye view of a puller I envisioned, the top-most brace would have rested on the end of the crank and the water-pump…might work?

    After pondering this for a while, I gathered every screwdriver in the neighborhood and started gingerly prying anywhere I could get daylight……

    The cover and the block are obviously aluminum and “don’t pry well.” I was thinking I’d have to have the cover planed and didn't know what I’d do about the block. Low and behold, there was no damage….. a little polishing and I got the mating surfaces to a near mirror finish….

    Again, I mention this just because I hadn't heard it from anyone else. The stuck cover stopped me in my tracks and the last thing I wanted to do was to scar the mating surfaces and have a leak down the road…. That, and only that, was what I was here to fix, the leak that is….So, screwdrivers are the way to go…. If you’re careful…

    BTW, the difficult removal also made for a difficult install. I measured the inner shaft and the inner bearing…both 15.00 mm at the midpoint…. Ouch!

    The second pic shows the cover removed. The blue arrows show where I did most of the prying, away from the inside mating surface...

    And, once again, the last pic shows the reason for all of this…….
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #8 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Replacing the cover is an exercise in multitasking. As previously described, you have to line up the fenced cogs so they mesh back in exactly as they came out. This is not really that hard…. (If that’s ALL you had to keep track of)….. just start the marks about 4.5 mm CCW off before starting the mesh.

    Harder, is getting the oil pump sprockets and chain to go back in correctly. See first pic. I thought it COULDN'T be done the first couple of times I tried it……. The pic below actually shows how NOT to start the reassembly…. To do it right, get the big sprocket on the shaft, (blue arrow) before the cover is near the block. Next, use a screwdriver or knife to “hang” the chain below the tensioner (red arrow). And finally, use a thin piece of cardboard to get the chain to slide into the bottom guide (green arrow) and then mesh both cog gears at 4.5 mm CCW simultaneously!!!….. This is Rocket Surgery, folks…… but if you practice, it can be done…

    I successfully dry-fitted these parts 5 times in a row before I put RTV silicon on the gasket and made the final fitment! And, was as nervous as a whore in church when I finally made the one-chance-only assembly……

    As stated, others didn't seem to have a problem getting the inner-shafts on the cam-drive gears to fit back into the inner bearings. I DID… I used a 19 mm deep socket wrapped in a rag to hammer on the recessed nuts to get the gears into the bearings.

    Gentle tapping got the cover on far enough that I could start the threads on the M8 nuts and use those to press the cover flat against the block. Everything went back correctly… the oil pump chain and sprockets and the cam-drive gears; my marks perfectly aligned. See second pic. Just a hint of sealant squeezed out of the mating surfaces…Mission accomplished.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #9 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Now I was ready to put on the new belts.

    Pulled the pins from the cam cogs and re-installed the bolts

    I had marked the old belts and the cogs. Counted the teeth and marked the new with the old, triple checking…. See first pic….. There’s also a mark on the fenced cog, not shown in the pic. Note, the wife’s toenail polish in red and the Verde Mugello touch-up paint on the cogs…... The red on the cam bolts is just to remind me those haven’t been torqued.

    Others complained about the difficulty in getting the new belts on. Although not easy, one of the least laborious tasks I found…. Released the tensioner and re-installed the pins…. Here’s a tip, as we’ll see later: Tighten the cam bolts fairly well at this point. Not to torque, but just so the pulleys can’t move against the pins….

    At this point, I had taken up Ron on his offer to borrow his laser-optical belt tension measuring instrument. Again, getting the correct belt tightness is well documented. I got to around 300 Hz (combined long and short branches) in less than 1/2 rev of the crank. (Although. I had to do a few more cranks to get to 300 after a full temp run…)

    The Ferrari spec for a new belt is 335-360 Hz, but many say this is too high, too tight. The optimal Hz is a closely held secret. Unlike some others who won’t say, I’ll say I set mine at 300 Hz, after a heat cycle….. That felt about right to me, making me wonder how useful the tensioning measurement devises are…. if there is no consensus as to what the tension should be??? One thing I will say, measurement of only the long branch is useless. Spec is 126 Hz. Meaningless….. you can easily get 120 to 160 Hz depending on where you stop cranking or where the engine randomly stops.

    I’d love further comment on what the Hz should be……
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  10. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #10 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I use this post title because, someone correct me if I’m wrong, only the early V-12’s have solid lifters and you have to set the cam timing the “old school” Ferrari way. The 550 timing method can’t be used. First pic is how the WSM says it’s done.

    Confused? You should be…. The WSM means exactly what it says, “Bring the valve clearance of cylinder nos. 1 and 5 (sic) to .50 mm.” (Except they mean cylinder # 7 or 12, not #5, not a V-8 after all…..)

    You're supposed to shim the valve clearance to .5 mm, which is .2-.3 mm greater than spec and see when the buckets start moving. Or, and this isn't in the WSM, you can use the actual clearance, subtract it from .5 mm and measure the crack degrees when the bucket goes down that fraction of a mm. In my case, I had to check what degree on the crank I was at with a bucket stroke of .144 mm on the exhaust and .246 mm on the intake! (I was shooting for .14 mm and .25 mm… these are tiny #’s folks….).

    I thought it strange to shim the valves to .5 mm, but having tried the alternative method, I starting to see why.....

    Using a .001" dial indicator, I could get measurements but not to the accuracy required. I tried dozens of times and could only get repeatable #'s to 2-5*..... might as well leave it where it is; off about 2-3* best I can tell.

    Anyway, I came up with this Rube Goldberg contraption shown in the second pic. The plunger on the caliper is perpendicular to and sitting on top of the bucket.

    There's another custom-cut and drilled piece of angle steel screwed down to the cam cap on the other side the 1/4"- 2"X3" angle where the caliper is clamped in the second pic.

    I could get repeatable measurement to one degree. Still was not convinced this is good enough because I was getting movement of anywhere between .03 mm of lift per degree and .01 mm per degree. I'm guessed there's some serious nonlinear ramping at work here.... (think about it, 0.01 mm is a really, really tiny displacement…. Do we really think the belts don’t stretch enough to effect such a change???… Oh well, like a good Axis trooper, I just followed the orders…)

    Of course, all this was only as good as my valve clearance measurements...... (actually used a brass feeler gauge, .05 mm graduations, and heavy duty aluminum foil, 1 mil or .025 mm, to get the actual clearance, which is about +/- .02 mm accurate….. don't know how Ferrari accurately measures their .5 mm / .02" clearance. Don’t the shims come in .05 mm increments? So you can only set the clearance to .50 mm +/- .05 mm??? I did better with my method, I think… )

    Anyway, at that point it was on to loosening the cam cogs and hammering on the cams from there and see what I got....

    When I finally got up the nerve to first take out the dowel pin on the intake and move the timing about 2*, I added about .08 mm to the lift, I got the proper intake opening at 6* BTDC. That resulted in moving the dowel pin ONE Hole. Then it occurred to me what that meant. See third pic.

    Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't moving the pin 1 hole equivalent to 22.5*/15 = 1.5* per hole? That should have moved the valve timing 1.5* on the cam which is 3.0* on the crank?

    All the pins removed were really tight.... so I'm guessing the pins don't really do much in locking the cogs... it's the bolt, hence why they and the washer are so highly lubed.... the slack in the pin/hole can allow 1* or so of movement.... I suppose this is mostly academic since we know we can change the timing in less than 3*-crank increments.... Less than 1*???...I'm not so sure...... Hell, I'm not sure of any of this!!!

    Point is, the WSM says valve opening and closing can be +/- 1*. My guess is that’s about as good as you can get using the 3* vernier hole system. Using the reference marks, maybe +/- 2*…

    On hammering the cam lobes, I used a 1X4” piece of wood and a hammer. On how hard to strike? It’s not like the 2001 Space Odyssey ape….. nor a Playskool child’s game…. More a good firm wrap, which will move the valve about .03 mm…..

    Yes, I think I got it, at least all cams are timed to the prescribed opening of .5 mm (after subtracting in the existing valve clearance) and are within 1* of the spec's for opening and closing..... Before doing the timing, worst one was off, I think, 3 *, so hopefully I did better than just using the reference marks (which are pretty much dead on).

    My methodology is fraught with error (bucket clearance, degree wheel, caliper error, etc.) and, at some point I'll do an error analysis to put a % on it..... Hopefully, most of the errors cancel out and it's pretty close.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  11. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    #11 mcypert, Aug 24, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I use the old belts to clamp the cam cogs over the new belts for tightening the cam bolts. Very uncomfortable with 70 ft-lbs of torque, because of the strain on the belts. Settled on about 65 ft-lbs for those and the belt tensioner.

    Also, re-installing the cam covers is purported to be difficult. I coated the new gasket on one side with RTV and stuck it to the head. Then coated the cover and fitted it. Also found removing some of the air pump plumbing helped… See first pic, things circled… also note how the vacuum line is zip-tied out of the way…

    Before start up, I pulled the fuel pump and injector relays...... Took a while, and was surprised the oil pressure didn't go up much, but oil-can light eventually went off on just cranking.

    Then, with relays back in, it fired up with a very noticeable squeak/squeal. I thought, "oh sh~!+, the cam drive gears aren't into the bearings far enough and are binding the inner and outer bearings!" Shut it down and soon found the PS/WP idler bearing was hot, as was the belt. I'd installed the inner washer on the outside of the bearing so it wasn't moving.....duh. That and a hose clamp at the bottom of the Rad wasn't tight enough...... All and all, not too bad considering the million ways I could have screwed up.

    Anyway, the car runs great, although it did before. I’d like to think a little better, what with all the work that went into the cam timing and all….

    As mentioned, I also re-tightened the cam belts to 300 Hz, cold, after a heat cycle. I just felt they were too loose after heating with an initial setting of about 300. Perhaps, if they had been set to 350 Hz the first time, they might have been fine.

    So there you have it….. A ridiculous amount of work to replace a $30 gasket….

    Again….. Thanks to all who helped….. Regards….Mark
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  12. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    Well done Mark, and thanks for documenting it all. You did hit several showstoppers that had Ron & me very perplexed, but your perseverance won out in the end.

    Ferrari's methodology for doing valve timing on their solid lifter engines still amazes me. Who'd have thought you'd have to shim the #1 and #12 cylinders with test shims to one spec for checking/setting the timing, then you have to reshim them to the running spec when you're done? Thanks to David (Fastradio) for clarifying that one!
     
  13. rmfurzeland

    rmfurzeland Formula Junior

    Jan 7, 2005
    559
    Houston, TX
    Full Name:
    Ron Furzeland
    Great job Mark, thanks for documenting for posterity. With John's posts and my own humble efforts, the Houstonians are now the pathfinders to be reckoned with.
    Ron
     
  14. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,007
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    John, Mark- If you ever had a 308 you would be used to the shimming to 0.5 mm clearance. If you do not do that, as Mark discovered, the cam ramp is too shallow and it is nearly impossible to get accurate readings.

    Forget how it was done on the Dino and Daytona, since my chains were pretty new and did not have to be changed, just tensioned.
     
  15. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Ferrari only does it that way to allow a shop with very limited tooling to time cams. A dial indicator is not needed. The determination of a closed or open valve was meant to be done by feel. In reality few of us do it that way.
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Been done that way on the solid lifter motors since the late 50's.
     
  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,007
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Brian- I wish I had a Ferrari with one of the DOHC motors from the 50s.
     
  18. Cribbj

    Cribbj Formula 3
    BANNED

    That makes more sense now, and I can see where a gnarly old Italian might prefer to do it by "feel" than by using more modern methods.
     
  19. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    #19 Rifledriver, Aug 25, 2014
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2014
    Determining the precise closing or opening by feel is far more repeatable by hand. With the follower shifting and rotating measuring exact open and close times with an indicator is just not possible to do with any accuracy. I don't do it either way but I am better equipped than most.

    Measuring with a caliper is not something I would dream of suggesting. Just for one thing it cant be installed perpendicular to the valve stem. The beauty of the factory way is it's simplicity and repeatability.


    I never will understand why anyone would unbolt cam sprockets, install or remove cams with a motor at TDC. It is just asking for a very expensive accident. Especially on the 12 cyl motors. It really helps to have an understanding of where all the pistons are at any given crankshaft location. Better still to be able to look at a cam lobe and know where its piston is.
     
  20. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    I was talking about the single cam motors.
     
  21. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,007
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Brian- Did not even think about adjusting the rockers to 0.5 mm for setting cam timing. But then, never had a SOHC Ferrari. Learn something new every day.
     
  22. mcypert

    mcypert Formula Junior

    Jun 7, 2012
    369
    Houston, Texas
    Full Name:
    Mark Cypert
    John & Ron... Couldn't have done it without y'all. Also wasn't sure if David wanted acknowledgement. Great guy. Here's his website, if anyone near Bedford, NH needs service:

    Ferrari Service of Bedford

    Taz/Brian, this is my first Ferrari, so the WSM's description of valve timing was completely foreign to me. Should have known to go to some of the V-8 forums when the WSM says to set "nos. 1 & 5 to .50 mm"..... on a V-12!!!

    The question in my mind still remains, how do you get the clearance to .50 mm using .05 mm shims? And, if you don't pull the cams, don't you need a $900 tool or something to shim the valves? Sure there are lots of ways that haven't occurred to me.

    Use of the caliper worked best for me. I was able to get it perpendicular to the bucket face. I did however notice some very slight wobble/slop in the bucket as the lobe pressed on it and tried to account for that. As said, when you're down to a hundredth of a mm, doubt the car cares too much ...

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=elWO5Mk6wbk

    Regards... Mark
     
  23. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
    Lifetime Rossa Owner

    Jul 19, 2008
    39,007
    Clarksville, Tennessee
    Full Name:
    Terry H Phillips
    Mark- With a bit of work, you can use screwdrivers to get out the shims, but the tools are not that expensive if you use them frequently. Here are the HE tools from Ricambi to make it much easier. $150. While you are at it, might as well check valve clearances, too, no? Only 48 sets to check. Since this is no longer a lock and swap.

    Ferrari Parts : 95979560 TOOL : Ricambi America
     
  24. fastradio

    fastradio F1 Rookie
    BANNED Professional Ferrari Technician

    Apr 26, 2006
    3,664
    New England
    Full Name:
    David Feinberg
    Glad to be of help, Mark...
    Welcome to the world of different.
     
  25. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    36,754
    Cowboy Capitol of the World
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall

    I never set it to .5mm but even if I did the shim range is big enough. Setting to .5mm is a terrible way to time the motor unless the In open and Ex close points are determined by hand. If done with an indicator it is terribly inaccurate and inconsistent. As I said it was never meant to be done that way.
     

Share This Page