Hi. I'm considering changing the coolant in my 456, now when it's on the lift. I've been reading some posts here, but I can't find a direct, clear, answer. Zerex G05 has been a choice for many of you, but that is not possible to get hold of here in Norway and is out of the question. In fact, any G05 is hard to find here. Another thread mentioned a G48 is suitable to use for the V12 and was a much better choice than G05, but the thread went on into a technical discussion without giving any clear answer. G48 / 774C is way easier to find and buy. Can I use the G48 in my 456?
One of our pros recommends Shell Rotella Ultra ELC, which contains additives to prevent cavitation erosion of the wet cylinder liners and has additives that best match Ferrari engines. G48 is used in Mercedes and BMW engines, but none of those have wet cylinder liners. Those wet liners are why US owners use G05 with nitrites and HOATs but change coolant frequently because the additives time out. Generally not available in Europe.
Thanks. I see I can get hold of 5L consentrate Rotella for 200 USD including shipping. What specifications do the Rotella meet, is there any other equivalent I can use?
Terry The g48 does have cavitation protection and some big diesel trucks use it I recommend it in later Ferraris that originally came with it .I think the ,456 did come with a similar formula Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
I literally just walked in from the garage finishing up a coolant job on my 550 using G05. Wish I had a solid alternative to recommend.
Shell Rotella Ultra ELC is no longer made. It was replaced by Rotella NF ELC. Both were vastly superior to the Shell product Ferrari came with. Shell does not provide Ferrari with its best. This coolant and its Caterpiller counterpart are the only real long life coolants with the anti cavitation properties needed for wet sleeve engines. If you want to change every year there are several good choices.
Now we are talking! Went through the CAT parts catalogue and found part number: 215-4245, 4 liter ELC premixed. Here's a pamflet I found: https://www.toromontcat.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/cat-coolant-low-res.pdf Surely this would work?
Brian- Thanks, I noticed Shell no longer showed the Ultra, but did not know it was replaced with NF. The Cat alternative is a new one on me. Will have to look it up. Dominick- I just do not like G48 for Ferraris, regardless of late tech data showing it as an alternative.
Terry Any technical reason that I should know or just a preference..I just looked again and it again shows good for cavitation etc ..used in heavy duty MB diesel etc Just curious..not debating Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Dominick- Not really. Just do not think cavitation erosion was as important to them as it was to G05 and the Shell top-end ELC.
Update! I called Pon-Cat, which is the local dealer here. They have a newer part number for the ELC coolant: 205-6612 which is premixed 20L. The guy on the phone said that this was one of the best coolants on the market, not sure if that was the seller talking or a true statement! We will see!
From my research it is. The chemistry used for anti cavitation, (a big issue on many modern high output diesels and high output wet sleeved gas engines is cavitation) is very short lived in use. A new chemistry was found that lasts in use long enough to be able to go to 5 year service intervals and last I looked into it only Shell and Cat use it in their top line product. Now instead of changing coolant on client cars every year I do it every 5 years saving them considerable money. Anti freeze is good for 300-400,000 miles but various additives wear out long before. The information is difficult to dig up. The suppliers of these sort of products have one set of information designed for OTC customers that is just a sales pitch and really say little of use. The real information is contained in sources designed for commercial customers and fleet operators. So few automobiles use wet sleeves in the modern age it is a market segment largely ignored by the producers of the products that can be a great benefit to us. In reality they really don't know we exist.
The Cat 3618s we use on fast ferries are terrible for cavitation corrosion in the block where the liners fit, they have to have big water pumps to get enough cooling flow around the liners to cool them, but the high water flow causes cavitation which attacks the block casting. When they pull liners in dry dock they regularly have to build up the casting pinholes with plastic steel filler. Not the best design of engine CAT make
Brian I am sure you look into this too but my concern would be the way it works with the plastics, and thin walled copper etc in our cars. The copper tests they perform are not really indicative of long term use. Any research / thoughts you have on that I appreciate you bringing this "outside" product into our view Sent from my moto g power using Tapatalk
Just came home from work now and this was standing outside the house https://photos.app.goo.gl/iNgqcSgAd8aFzUr47 courtesy of my dad being in the area where Cat is located. I checked the service invoice for my 456, and it's about 3 years since the previous coolant change was done. Fun fact: the 4 first service invoices in the cars folder accumulated to €33.000!
Sorry. Been a long time since I've posted images on forums. Thought it was possible to view the images directly from Google photo. Second attempt! Image Unavailable, Please Login
For those of us in the States. Several year supply of the Shell Rotella LF. The Caterpillar coolant is about $19/gallon at Cat dealers. Specs below. 215-4245: CAT® ELC PREMIX Amazon.com: Shell Rotella Extended Life ELC Anti-Freeze + Coolant, Concentrate (1 Gallon, Case of 6) : Automotive
Thanks everyone! Coolant was replaced this weekend. The coolant drained was just like American beer - close to water with a hint of blue dye. So I think it was very much due replacement!
@Rifledriver Is Zerex G-40 appropriate to run in these cars? The dealers are using it on the new cars and it's easy to get. I'm mostly curious about F355, but I know this is a V12 thread. Any info you're willing to share is always appreciated.
The key is to know what is in your car now and keep the same type. So the G40 is si-oat so if whatever you have is compatible with that you can use it. You can't go by color anymore. In this thread the talk was for 456 basically same motor 550/575. There are unconfirmed claims of liner pitting (some from very reliable sources) which is caused by cavitation. We do not know if this is inherent in the V12 or caused by something else. We universally see cavitation in diesel motors. Diesels use diesel coolant like the Zerex G05. Diesel coolant has nitrate additives to coat the liners. But too much nitrates and foul the coolant plug stuff up. Some say G05 does not have enough additives or the additive package burns up for a short life. There are others like Zerex HDEL coolant for longer life. I'm lazy and use G05 for everything and use DCA a compatible diesel additive for the correct amount of additives for my diesel system and my 550. You use DCA test strips and add additive to get to a concentration specified. It is extra work and you have to have more knowledge but it is what everyday diesel guys do. No big deal. I have never heard of cavitation of V-8's so you can use what you like but be in the same class because some fluids don't mix and junk precipitates out and clogs stuff up. If you do a complete switch then do your homework. Some classes might cross over under certain conditions. If you are not compatible and want to change then you have to open freeze plugs and really drain your block well and refill with the new class of coolant. It is easier to just keep the classes of coolant separate: IAT – Inorganic Additive Technology. ... OAT – Organic Acid Technology. ... HOAT – Hybrid Organic Acid Technology. .
