430 Scuderia or 360 Challenge Stradale? | Page 4 | FerrariChat

430 Scuderia or 360 Challenge Stradale?

Discussion in '360/430' started by moazip, Sep 4, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Gh21631

    Gh21631 F1 Veteran
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 24, 2011
    8,325
    East
    save it as jpeg and it should work without issue or scan and email to someone who can post it. I am sure everyone would be appreciative .
     
  2. arizonaitalian

    arizonaitalian F1 World Champ
    Owner Silver Subscribed

    Oct 29, 2010
    19,897
    Wyoming
    The OP asked which would hold its value better, not which is the "better" car.

    I think he got the answer...most of us believe the CS will hold value better...principally due to three factors; (1) it's older, (2) there roughly half as many in the US, (3) it's ~30% cheaper to start.

    There you go.

    Now, my thoughts on the fun stuff...what about the car (vs. the money preservation). I love my CS and have driven scuds a fair bit and fairly hard. The scud is much faster on a track. On the road, most of us driver slower than these cars can really go because we value our lives and those around us. So, I agree w the earlier comment that for most of us on the street the CS has more than enough speed.

    I've been eying scuds for several months but just can't being myself to trade the CS on one. The CS is so special and the sounds are so perfect. (and I can't justify having both).

    I will say the CS will feel like a Ducati compared to a 575 (exaggerated for effect...and no slight on the 575...I love that car an consider it a steal of a v12 GT)
     
  3. Jason Crandall

    Jason Crandall F1 Veteran

    Mar 25, 2004
    6,373
    ATL/CHS/MIA
    Full Name:
    Jason
    If you want the car that performs better, then why look at Ferrari's.?

    I can drive my CS all day every day and not lose a penny on it. Why would you not drive a collectible? I see it the exact opposite. I drive my CS all the time. I love driving it. Mileage does not matter. All these cars at some point in the future will be rebuilt and stuck in a garage somewhere.
     
  4. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
    2,013
    Indialantic, FL
    Full Name:
    Trent
    This thread hit high-school status. I will defend freshmeat and his 0-60 times; he was responding to a thread that said "There's not that much performance difference between the Scud and the CS on a normal road.". On a normal road the scud is likely faster as pointed out.

    But really; you guys sound like the old fogies at the wine bar arguing which Cabernet Sauvignon is better; Kathryn Hall 2008 or the St. Helena 2007. We all know which one is better ;)

    The OP wants to know which he should purchase based on retention of purchasing power over 4-5 years. He did not ask which one was fastest, best overall on street or track, just the retention of purchasing power post transaction.

    The CS and Scud are both absolutely fantastic. The reasons for purchasing one over the other is purely a personal decision.

    Neither works for me.

    On a track the guy in the worked Miata will blow all of you away, and the kid in the hopped up formula go cart will wax everyone. Who cares. A great driver in a competitive vehicle will usually will be faster than an average driver in a superior vehicle, thats just how it works.
     
  5. ferrari#7

    ferrari#7 Formula Junior

    Sep 8, 2008
    323
    how true trent.
    For a stock car, a lotus exige will blow just about anything away on the track. It all depends what you want.
     
  6. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    Stokpro do you have the real numbers? Would love to know, and for 16M/Scuds as well if you're privy to the info!
     
  7. Mikestradale

    Mikestradale F1 Rookie

    Jan 25, 2006
    2,596
    Netherlands
    Full Name:
    Mike
    US CS production around 360-370.
    Worldwide CS production around 1300.

    16M production according to Ferrari is 499. But in reality I have read it's more.
    Scud production I have read 3k+...not sure
     
  8. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,661
    the CS is beautiful but simply has no torque, one has to rev it to death
     
  9. freshmeat

    freshmeat F1 Veteran

    Aug 30, 2011
    7,257
    Call me crazy, but that was partly why I personally loved my old CS...that rev-happy angry tubi sound & flame spitting esp. on tunnel runs in SF was epic joy.

    But, yea, I truly felt the "slowness" of the CS after test driving a scud, it was immediately apparent the second I got back into my CS.

    If I could re-do my decision, I think I would've still bought my Scud BUT also kept the CS =)
     
  10. F430GT

    F430GT Formula 3

    Sep 29, 2005
    1,300
    Marco Island, FL
    The 360 CS is beautiful, and it is fairly fast, but slow by today standards.

    The Scuderia is not as beautiful, but it is more reliable, cheaper to maintain, less prone to damage the body panels due to lost control, and too fast for most people by today standards.

    Clean low miles (5000 miles) 04 Stradale (no accidents) are solid in the $140k today. Clean 08 Scud with same mileage and history are in the $175k range today.

    Performance difference is gigantic between these two cars. Almost 20 secs at the Nurburgring, while the difference between the 458 Italia and 430 Scuderia at the same track: 1 second on a 7+ minutes lap.

    As more people crashes the CS, it will become more appealing, I bet there are less than 100 clean low miles CS in U.S.

    There are around 600 08/09 Scuderia in U.S. (not counting 16M), 250 are 2008 cars confirmed by FNA, and at least 500 of them are clean low miles cars, so there are at least 5 times more clean Scuderias than Stradales.

    Supply and Demand rules, in 5 years the Stradale should return closer to the selling price today. Maintenance for 5 years would likely be higher in the Stradale (F1 pump, solenoids, clutch wear, tires, belt service, etc). In 5 years the Scuderia will still sell for more than the Stradale, but I expect the gap to be in the $20k range and not $35k as today (04CS vs 08Scuderia).

    Use the college fund, buy your CS or Scuderia, if the kid behaves, fund him, if not, make him pay for education. Life is too short.
     
  11. Trent

    Trent Formula 3

    Dec 10, 2003
    2,013
    Indialantic, FL
    Full Name:
    Trent
    +1. I would also recommend not telling him there is a fund. My kids will never know. At the end of college I will likely just pay off their loans "if the kid behaves".
     
  12. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,661
    F430GT, gotta say that is a brilliant and highly accurate and informative post, well done, my only problem is that I have 3 kids ....
     
  13. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,661
    I still think a SCUD engine in a CS would be a peach
     
  14. Hkpooh

    Hkpooh Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2011
    514
    I am 100% agree on this, my Scud sticker was like 320k or 330k I fogot. The 458 Scud sticker is not going to be lower than that. Drive both, buy the one you love.
     
  15. ferrari355gtb

    ferrari355gtb Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
    1,600
    UK
    Full Name:
    R
    No way - much prefer the sound of the Strad than the Scud.
     
  16. Hkpooh

    Hkpooh Formula Junior

    Nov 11, 2011
    514
    #91 Hkpooh, Sep 7, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2012
    To the OP.....
    If you really want to minimize $ lost, CS "looks" like a better bet.
    However really drive both, because the money you going to lose on Scud is not going to be big neither.
    Drive something you "WANT".

    How fast a Scud is ?
    This is just my butt dyno and reason why I can't settle for less power.
    My scud and previous 430 were mainly freeway driving while I don't drive like a mad man but I do WOT passing people sometimes.
    Scud is slower than my 2011 GTR that has 620+ HP
    Scud is FASTER than my 2013 GTR that is capable to do 2.7 0.60 and 10.8 1/4 mile.
     
  17. PorscheGuy

    PorscheGuy Formula Junior

    Dec 13, 2010
    517
    Irving TX
    Full Name:
    Jeff
    #92 PorscheGuy, Sep 9, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I love both the CS and Scuderia. In the looks department they are pretty close in my mind. Took this picture of mine today. I think the lines of this car are amazing.
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  18. ferrame

    ferrame Formula 3

    Mar 2, 2005
    1,193
    Orange, Calif
    I agreed with you 100% on this one.
     
  19. datax

    datax Karting

    Apr 9, 2006
    203
    VA (Washington DC)
    Full Name:
    Ken T
    My problem with the CS also. Sounds great and look nice but it doesn't go. Lol

    CS makes their owners feel special only because of low production numbers (and may be that look and sound, which is subjective btw). Scud makes their owners special with that Enzo matching performance. Gearbox alone in that car makes my heart race! Go drive the Scud and do 2nd and 3rd gear WOT shifts, you'll forget about whatever that makes CS a special car. :D So, I ended up with Scud and currently putting a lot of miles on her. Once its value get to the point where CS are, I plan to buy the CS and experience myself tho.
     
  20. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Depends on what you do to it! Last time I dyno'd, I made 315ft. pounds of torque from my set up! [fyi, the 430 Scuderia makes 347ft.pounds].

    ... Also dumping 200kg of weight out of the car makes a massive difference too... From racing batteries, to high flow headers, cats and titanium exhausts, to fixed carbon challenge seats and CF bumpers. Huge amounts more weight can be dropped if your determined. Just going to aluminum center bells [from the heavy stainless steel ones sheds several kilo's - and that's unsprung weight too], not forgetting light wheels like BBS FI.

    ... Last time I went up against a F430 it the owner couldn't believe how easily I could out accelerate him, right from the line and on.... and that was before we even got to the twistier sections...

    Its not just all about torque and power its about weight too!
     
  21. RichardCH

    RichardCH F1 Rookie
    BANNED

    Jan 16, 2005
    4,661
    er not really, torque matters whatever the weight & the CS is simply gutless in this respect as the engine is toooo small, unless one is 7K+ rmp, then it flies but frankly its not a realistic proposition vs the SCUD
     
  22. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    Sorry but I beg to differ, its really all about power & torque to weight ratio. Engine too small is nonsense. Cars weight too much I say!!!

    You drop 200kg's and increase power to 440hp and you'll be shocked what a difference it makes. Don't discount it until you try it. I'm certain I could outrun a Scud!

    ... While I have not yet tried it playing with a Scud I could easily hassle a 458 last time I was on a track and the driver was gob smacked. I do run Scud brakes though and 430 Challenge suspension.
     
  23. Finlander

    Finlander Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 12, 2012
    2,328
    Sunshine State
    any vids? ...not questioning it...would just love to see it. :)
     
  24. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
    Project Master

    Oct 29, 2005
    4,241
    Gibraltar
    Full Name:
    360trev
    #99 360trev, Sep 12, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Not yet...

    However I am participating in the Guinness World Record attempt at Silverstone race track this weekend [1,100 Ferrari's gathering together!], UK so will try to get some this weekend!

    People don't believe it until they see it with their own eyes but really its true, weight is the problem, not horsepower! If you can kick out all the extra pounds you'll be genuinely shocked how much better these cars can go.

    Ferrari have gone all quiet about how fast their last evolved 360GT could go around their own test track, yes, faster than the 599 GTO!

    Edit: Recent pic...
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  25. vf430

    vf430 Formula Junior

    Dec 16, 2009
    666
    SoCal
    whats the cost of losing all those lbs? 200 kgs seems like a huge weight reduction. For that much cost and trouble you might as well buy a Scud.
     

Share This Page