430 Heat Exchanger | FerrariChat

430 Heat Exchanger

Discussion in '360/430' started by Flyingbrick242, Apr 28, 2020.

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  1. Flyingbrick242

    Flyingbrick242 Formula Junior
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 26, 2017
    603
    Northern AZ.
    Hey Guys,

    With all this extra time being at Home Office Utube becomes one source of passing time...so any Ferrari content I am interested..Came across one where they purchased a Salvage F430 and like the old saying goes want to buy a expensive Ferrari buy one that has been abused.
    I did not realize how common heat exchange failure was or is for the 360 due to the design which has changed from tube type to pancake for the 430.
    When they fail it can be catastrophic to the gearbox..

    Question: How common is it for the 430.?
    Is there a better option if one encounters this.?
    Thanks, Be Safe out there.
    KD//
     
  2. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    We used plate heat exchangers at work, up to 6 foot tall. These you can pull apart to clean the plates etc- never known one to fail. Some have stainless plates and others are titanium so you can imagine the costs.
    In the old days we had tube coolers and these used to get holes in the tubes regularly, which we had to fit tapered brass plugs to blank off the leaking tube
     
  3. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    so the 360's heat exchanger is fixable? Would you elaberate a little bit? Maybe some pics?

     
  4. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
    1,728
    Canada, Florida
    Full Name:
    Fred
    In the industrial world using boilers to produce steam, leaking tubes are identified and plugged (use air to id leakers).
    However, for every tube plugged you end up with reduced cooling capability.
    Truthfully, the way our cars are babied we probably don't need it for the cooling of the gearbox oil or to warm up the gearbox when its cold out.
     
    Flyingbrick242 and Mel Spillman like this.
  5. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    If you have one leak on such a small cooler, you will get another one as soon as you fix the first one. Tube coolers suffer from pin holes in the first part of the tube- caused by the water flow removing zinc from the tube alloy by a form of cavitation. Used to b called de zincification- not that you will find in dictionary
    On industrial coolers we used to fit a nylon insert into the end of the tube and Araldite them in place- this gives the first 3 to 4 inches of tube the protection of the nylon insert, so the cavitation bubble collapses in the area of the insert and not the brass alloy tube wall.
    As the water flow increases, so does the cavitation effect ( faster engine speed is more water pump output)
    For the price of a cooler why would you fix it, as another tube will leak next week
     
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  6. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    I will agree that tubes can be plugged, but it depends where it is in the boiler. If you can get to the leak we generally weld them up. Not seen air used to find leaks, usually use water with about 50 psi pressure as you need to see the leak. Not a job i used to like doing as boiler was generally still hot and melt the soles of your boots.
     
    hessank likes this.
  7. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    thank you for the explanation. its more than $600 .... I think its expensive and was looking for an alternative


     
  8. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    For the work in making it, it is cheap by ferrari prices. Eurospares are about £420 new and half that used.
    I would think you would need to be sure your rad cap was good to maintain the pressure, which helps stop the formation of the cavitation bubbles in the first place
     
    brookliner7 likes this.
  9. 24000rpm

    24000rpm F1 Rookie

    the 430 exchanger is only sub 200 british pounds. I was thinking if I can modify the connections and use a 430 one. LOL

     
  10. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
    1,728
    Canada, Florida
    Full Name:
    Fred
    Methodology varies Mike. On the nuclear side of my Nuke Plant we used Eddy Current Testing to find leakers. On the conventional side such as in the condensers (HXs to condense steam and cool it before returning the waste water to the lake) we plug all the tubes on one side and inject air on the other. Leakers are plugged if not repairable or re-sleeved). Keep it simple/cheap application.

    Back on topic I did not know the 430s had a pancake style HX. Never seen a picture of one or ever read anything if it was better performing etc.
     
  11. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
    5,828
    Isle of man- uk
    Look on the parts diagram, i think it is one you cannot split the plates on a hanger.

    I used to work on supertankers with 82 bar membrane wall boilers, we dont have fancy equipment like yours so a water test works fine.
    As for the condenser we had about 6500 tubes 22 feet long- we had to change them on one ship i was on due to salt water leakage, took 5 weeks cutting out and expanding in the new ones.
    A quick fix to stop a pin hole salt water leak was to inject saw dust into the salt water inlet pipe and the vacuum would suck it into the pin hole.
    Only 45 000 hp, not the output of a nuclear turbine
     

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