400i Daily Driver in the Snow | Page 2 | FerrariChat

400i Daily Driver in the Snow

Discussion in '365 GT4 2+2/400/412' started by aleventhal, Dec 5, 2005.

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  1. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #26 enjoythemusic, Dec 6, 2005
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  2. ctkellett

    ctkellett Karting

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    #27 ctkellett, Dec 6, 2005
    I love it, leave that Audi in the driveway all winter long. I would take the V-12 any day over quattro, You are a man after my own heart. Just say no to trailer/show queens!
     
  3. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

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    #28 aleventhal, Dec 6, 2005
    No worries there! The audi is my wife's and truth be told she does not even like to let me drive it. :) Fine by me, I will take the Ferrari.

    Actually, I have been playing hooky in the country the last couple of days and it looks like I will be taking the 400 into NYC tomorrow morning and staying for the rest of the week! At least the guys in my garage can wash the snow off it. I will try to get some NYC snow pics.

    Thanks for all the great support,

    Alex
     
  4. BigAl

    BigAl F1 Veteran

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    #29 BigAl, Dec 6, 2005
    -10....GEEEEZ!!! Did it take like an hour to warm the car up?

    Love that sh*t eatin' grin on yo' face Steven!
     
  5. Ashman

    Ashman Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #30 Ashman, Dec 6, 2005
    Sorry to disappoint you, Alex, but your NYC snow shots will have to wait. You'd never know that it snowed this morning by looking at the streets and sidewalks this afternoon.

    John
     
  6. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #31 enjoythemusic, Dec 6, 2005
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    It tooks 20 years to achieve, another 20 minutes to get the car off the delivery truck safely and in my hands. My toes were nearly frozen!

    .
    .
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    Yet my soul was burning hot to...
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  7. dave_fonz_164

    dave_fonz_164 Formula 3

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    #32 dave_fonz_164, Dec 6, 2005
    Nice pictures.....How does the car handle the cold, hows the heating/defrost on it?
     
  8. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

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    #33 aleventhal, Dec 6, 2005
    Around town the heat and defrost work quite well. On the highway, the problem is the cars cooling system is too efficient: On a cold day at a constant 65mph, both the oil and water temps go back to the peg, rising only when you slow down - as a consequence the heat turns to lukewarm at best. I may try to put some cardboard in front of the radiator to see if that helps - again I will let the board know what I find in case anyone else is crazy enough to try this. :)

    Thanks,

    Alex
     
  9. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    #34 judge4re, Dec 6, 2005
    If the weather is 32F or higher, the 365 puts out so much heat from the firewall that I will turn the A/C on from time to time...
     
  10. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #35 enjoythemusic, Dec 6, 2005
    Alex,

    Have driven the 308 a lot in the snow/ice and including below 0F temps. Rule #1 is always to use a t-shirt or some such to cover the driver side intake so no cold air reaches the oil cooler. This is true for any normal driving (read: not track) below 45F.

    Below 36F the cardboard trick will work. Depending on how cold it is you can modify the size of the cardboard, but make sure you use the appropriate tape (racer/helicopter tape is fine) and that the cardboard/tape DOES NOT interfere with the movement of fans in case they turn on for some odd reason. An ounce of prevention = pound of cure (regarding fans).

    Other things. Change your oil to 0W-30. The oil temp VISCOSITY at operating temps will be fine. Odds are you will be LUCKY to get the temps midway between the lowest and midline.

    NOTE: If you use EBC brake pads (i had Green Stuff V4), they HATE the cold and so brakes are nearly worthless for the first few uses and can cause a drastic reduction in braking ability.

    As for tires, i prefer Blizzak WS-50 as they are considered some of the very best ice/snow tires but do not need studs. Keep in mind the winter roads here in high mountain New England gets black ice and thick snow that can clog up the treads of 'normal all-weather' tires.

    Engine/oil/battery warmer. If the temps get REALLY cold (below 20F), you may want to consider getting units that warm the engine/fluid above freezing and also one that warms the battery above freezing.

    Windshield wiper fluid designed for very cold conditions. Trucks and whatnot can throw up a lot of salt/sand/crap on your car. Naturally this also will cover the windshield and while the Ferrari heaters are awesome at defrost, you still need to occasionally clean the rubbish off the windshield as you drive.

    Well, that is about all i can think of for now.
     
  11. Bab

    Bab Formula 3

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    #36 Bab, Dec 6, 2005
    You sir are AWSOME! I think it is very cool to see such a car in the cold weather. Good luck with the winter driving, it can be fun and it can be scary, usually at the same time.

    Oh and btw, I love the color on your car, I wish I saw 400i's more often, I'm a big fan of the 4-seaters and the design of the 400 is simply beautiful.
     
  12. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #37 Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Dec 6, 2005
    Make sure you replace the upper brake light bulb on the left too
     
  13. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
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    #38 Dr Tommy Cosgrove, Dec 6, 2005
    the problem is the cars cooling system is too efficient [/QUOTE]

    That's not something you will hear around here too often, especially in the summer!
     
  14. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #39 enjoythemusic, Dec 7, 2005
    LOL! Yeah, i laugh about it nowadays as i decided to replace ALL light housings/hardware on the car including the interior light and door lights since taking delivery of the car. Guess the PO did not realize he has a bulb out and the stock units were suffering from fade.dirt/etc. due to being nearly 20 years old. Gave my old lights to Fchatter Verell for his wonderful help. Naturally i also uprated the headlights :)
     
  15. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #40 enjoythemusic, Dec 7, 2005
    Am sure you know many of us have upgraded to a better, lighter radiator from Fchat sponsor Nick Forza. Lose 15 lbs while also gaining cooling efficiency :)

    These 20+ year old stock radiators are relics!
     
  16. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

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    #41 aleventhal, Dec 7, 2005
    Eric:

    I had this problem on my old ex-livanos 365gt, #13141 (never should have sold that one). The 400i, interestingly, has no such issue. I wonder what they changed?

    Alex
     
  17. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

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    #42 aleventhal, Dec 7, 2005
    That's not something you will hear around here too often, especially in the summer![/QUOTE]
    Doc:

    You know, I have heard so much about poor cooling on Ferraris, but in my experience they all have very good vehicle cooling systems (NOT passenger). I drove the 400 into the city this late summer in 90+ weather, in traffic, with the dual ac blasting, and the water and oil temps never went past the midway point, even in traffic on wthe west side highway. Drove the Dino in 95+ weather from NY to Harrisburg, including an hour not moving due to an accident on I84, and also no problems on the water or oil temp. I however, cooked in the bright sun, lots of glass, and no ac - I literally had a rash when I got to harrisburg. :(

    Alex
     
  18. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

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    #43 aleventhal, Dec 7, 2005
    Unlike a 308 (or Dino) the 400 does not have a seperate intake for the oil cooler that I could block. Interestingly, the dino has a metal lever that closes a flap in the intake to block the oil cooler in winter.

    The 400 fans are on the back side of the radiator, so no worries here - but thanks for the words of warning.

    Unfortunately, can't do that. This car DRINKS oil, so until i rebuild the motor I need to stick to something heavier - but since I have a heated garage in NYC and the country, I seem ok sticking with 20w50 - but normally, agree with your advice 100%.

    These are exactly the tires I ordered! Glad to hear they will be a good choice. I was a little worried.

    Good idea on the washer fluid. Thanks. As for the battery and oil warmer, the car really only gets parked (except on errands, out to dinner, etc. - ie short duration) in a heated garage - weather in NYC or at our country house, so I think I am ok there - even with the heavy oil - do you disagree?

    Thanks for all the help - I look forward to your responses.

    Thanks again,

    Alex
     
  19. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #44 enjoythemusic, Dec 7, 2005
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Alex,

    Excellent tire choice! Just remember you lose 'pure' traction ability as the grooves are big/wide. It always feels 'weird' going from the Mich Pilot Sport PS2 to the WS-50.



    i disagree with the whole 20W-50 thing. Sure i did that for a while and even did the whole Amsoil thing too, but for really cold weather the car will hate the SLUDGE 20W during cold startup. How about 5W-30? Remember, it is the oil's TEMP that also dictates to a good degree the viscosity. Frankly 0W-30 is fine, if you want to go 0W-40 that is ok too, but after MANY oil changes over a three month period just to see the oil pressure gauge/temp results and log it all, i am a firm believer in what i previously posted. Sorry you have such an oil leak, but that WILL NOT solve the COLD SLUDGE problem during startup PLUS, frankly, i have a feeling your oil pressure with 20W-50 at cold temps is above midway mark at a lowly 2.5k rpm. This means the viscosity is high and the engine is working HARD to push the oil through.

    Think of it this way, during whatever normal operating temps when driving the car, the oil pressure gauge should be midway at about 6k rpm. At idle it should be... oh hell, lemme make a scan and draw it out.

    This is a basic non-technical analysis. See pic below. (Launching Adobe Photoshop 7...)



    PS: The attached PDF gives an operating temp min/max. i'd ignore the min to some degree as modern oils have come a long way at protecting the engine. The MAX i would pay attention to. If you go about a bit above that no real harm is done per se, but i see no real need to go above it AT NORMAL OPERATING TEMPS.
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  20. aleventhal

    aleventhal Formula Junior

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    #45 aleventhal, Dec 7, 2005
    Hey - thanks for the info - and I do basically agree with all you have said. Unfortunately, I do not have an oil "leak", rather my car burns oil (actually, only the first for cylinders on the passenger side bank) and going to a thinner oil definetely exacerbates this. Long term, the solution is a full rebuild...but until my boxer motor is done and my mechanic can start a new project for me, I am just driving it. Now, the good news is that even with 20w50 on a very cold day (last night - temp in the high 20s / low 30s) on the highway at 3.5k in top (3rd) gear, with the water and oil temps both just off the cold peg (they had been warmer, but fell after constant highway running) the oil pressure was dead center on the gauge - just where it should be...so I think no harm done. If I did not have a heated garage at both my homes, I would never do this - but at this point the heavier oil makes the car driveable until i can get the motor redone. Am I crazy? Maybe - but you would expect this from the guy who just ordered blizzaks for a 400i! :)
     
  21. enjoythemusic

    enjoythemusic F1 World Champ

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    #46 enjoythemusic, Dec 7, 2005

    LOL! :)

    Dunno about crazy, some of the guys here do not drive their car if it MIGHT, MAYBE, JUST PERHAPS ON A LARK may rain. Guess their precious car will melt.

    Hmm... maybe it is the melting thing, so they SHOULD drive in the snow :)
     
  22. judge4re

    judge4re F1 World Champ

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    #47 judge4re, Dec 7, 2005
    Alex:

    One of two reasons probably, better cooling in the 400i or more insulation on the firewall.

    The other two cars I can drive in thin shoes (mid engine), but the 365 stays toasty once it is up to temperature.

    Give a breakdown on what you find when you rebuild the motor in this one. I'm interested to see if Ferrari was still making valve guides out of recycled coat hangers in the 1980's.

    Cheers,
    Erik
     
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