400 or 400i

I have thought of this a lot. Each one has good points.
The diffrence between the two is fuel deliver and cams,
the 400 has Weber carbs which have great looks, throttle response and sound . The bad is, pooer fuel milage worse exhoust emmisions and dirty oil and easery chance at running lean with pluged jets.
The 400I has CIS fuel injection which starts easily give better fuel use, cleaner exhoust and can be a really trouble free systom.
The bad, throttle response is a little slow and becouse the air metering will not tolerate cam over lap Ferrari had to run cams that do not have the top end and ultimate HP of the Weber carbed engine but the new cams made a smother engine and power lower on the rev band, which helps in a heavy GT car.

 

+1 on all counts!

Plus, the side drafts in the 400 are difficult to get to in order to synchronize and tune. But I'm sure that the sound of all that air rushing in through those intakes compensates for some of those disadvantages. For me, the Bosch K-Jetronic, which was a fixture on countless BMW and Mercedes of the early 80's, and it's reliability was a major reason I chose the 400i. My local service station can adjust the FI for emissions testing in literally less than 10 minutes.

John

 

Isn't it true that the carbureted 400 was never sold in the USA?

 

NONE of the 400/400i/412 series cars were officially imported into the U.S. Every one that came in (legally) had to be brought in through a registered conversion shop and modified to meet DOT and EPA requirements. Many that came in were brought in as used cars and a few were brought in essentially brand new and converted by shops such as Amerispec (Dick Fritz), who had (and still does) an active business bringing gray market cars into the U.S.

John

 

IMO, you can't drive a 400 gt/i like any other old car. It's an all or nothing deal. If you don't plan on putting in the time/money, don't do it. You will hate the experience. These things are really steel and aluminum women. They are a great experience that will reward you with an enriched life IF you tend to their every need. If you just use them without putting anything in, they will punish and torment you. IMO

 

Is there any difference in the ignition system between the 400 and 400i, e.g. is one mechanical and the other electronic?

 

I'd bet that you'll find that a lot of 400 and 400i ignition systems have been updated and/or molested since they have about an equal number of sins and based on the reporting here -- so stock-to-stock comparison may not match what you find out there. The 412 has probably the best system (because the Microplex is much more reliable than the Dinoplex, and the advance is handled by no-maintenance non-contact electronics) -- same system as TR and very similar to 328. Per the OMs:

400 (occasional fiddling required in two areas)
trigger - points inside distributor
advance - mechanical inside distributor
electronics - none, high point current fires coils directly

400i (troublesome early electronic reliabilty and still needs occasional mechanical fiddling anyway)
trigger - breakerless inside distributor (star wheel)
advance - mechanical inside distributor
electronics - Dinoplex

412 (better electronic reliabilty and no mechanical servicing, but the ECU is pricey if needed)
trigger - RPM (ring gear teeth) and TDC (selected notches) flywheel sensors
advance - controlled by ECU
electronics - Microplex MED 120B

 

Is this star wheel also referred to as a relucer?

 

Yes, it could be translated as that (assuming that the detection method in the electronic module is by sensing variable reluctance) -- although that might better be "relucter" or maybe "reluctor".

However, I'd also comment that putting it all in this noun form isn't the best English translation -- but is sort of typical of F's documentation IME. Something like "reluctance wheel" or "reluctance rotor" would be much better IMO, if you wanted to include something about the magnetics in the name.

See page 83 in the 176/79 400i OM or page 75 in the 250/82 400i OM

 

For 400 vs 400i -- I think the potential hassle/pain factor is about equal for the same condition, and you should be worrying more about the suspension system than the ignition system

 

Could you explain a little more? Do you mean you can let them sit for any length time? Or that they require constant attention even after you "sort" them out? In reference to other Ferraris of the same time period? Just other classics in general? I am curious because I've been banging around the idea of getting a 400i as my second Ferrari...

Thanks.

 

Not to go off topic here, but the phrase "my second Ferrari" has such a great sound to it, doesn't it?

John

 

LOL! Hadn't thought about it, but yea! Never thought there would be a "my first Ferrari!"

 

I think this means the car either runs or doesn't. On mechanical points and distributors with mechanical advance, and carbs, something may go amiss but it can limp home. For example, stuck float valves can be banged on and fixed in the field, or a sticky advance will still work albeit badly. With electronic ignition, FI, etc. either you're fine or you're stranded. Complex systems means more attention to detail to keep it reliable.

Ken

 

The flip side to your point for example with a carburated engine that has a choke per cyl. it is very hard to till when you have a fuel metering passage plugged and I have seen engines run lean on one cylinder, The owner drives like this a long time some times with very bad results. The injected car will not run and might be what saves the engine.
But right now with my CIS car is not starting when hot, I want carbs!

 

Having 12 cylinders masks problems, no doubt about it. When my little 4 banger has a fouled spark plug or something with one cylinder, it's pretty obvious!

Ken

 

The car is for driving. It has no upside resale potential. Virtually any major system replacement is a money losing move. Is that okay with you? I replaced the entire suspension in my 400A a couple of months ago, cost $9900, almost half what I paid for the car. That was okay by me. These cars are money pits, but they run great. If you are not willing to accept a negative investment, do something else. That's the bottom line here, no matter what anybody says.

 

In the past few months the guy that live next door to me has bought his wife a pool, a tanning bed, new lips and tits, and a puppy. In that same time frame I bought a half way decent 400i. It's only money. Go with what makes you happy, and a nice V12 will chase that dream very nicely.

 

This thread starting post came across to me as, Goldsax wanting a Ferrari v-12 engine and he happened to get a car with it,

 

Here's the way I look at it: I paid $28K for my 5 speed 10 years ago. I've put 13,000 miles on it and a few thousand dollars in maintenance in it over that time. I could probably get my money back or not lose very much if I sold it today. Even if the car is worth zero (hah!) $28K is probably less than one year's depreciation on a new 612.

They're not cheap to maintain, and your upside may be limited, but on the other hand how much downside is there? You could piss away a lot more money on something else and not have any where near as much fun.

Just MHO

John

 

Hallelujah to that!