I'm probably going to have a fews sets of wheels in the end tbh! At least another set of 19's with racing slicks fitted on for track duties. Also been talking to a company that can actually convert Ferrari alloys into split rims of my choice of width - sounds v.interesting. I could then retain the look of the CS wheels but go as wide as I want without worrying about getting the power down. E.g. here's a pic of stock Modena ones made into split rim 19's... I could use CS wheels centers to make my own split rim CS wheels. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Your doing an amazing job on that car, and your responses to the questions asked are polite and professional. Please keep us updated on the great job you are doing.
+1 It's been a pleasure reading this thread. I, like everyone else here, can't wait to see and hopefully hear (video please!) the result. Frank
Trev, if you don't mind me asking, what is it that you do day to day? You have to be pretty talented/enlightened to dream up half the things that will eventually go on this car. Just curious -w
if you were to widen the stock CS rear rims, would you have to go with a design with bolts around the circumference, or could it look stock?
I was going to post the same question. Before I ask mine, I will state why I am curious... I am a newbie on the forum and my dream is to own a Ferrari before my grandfather passes. He used to tell me how BMW's and Mercedes used to do nothing for him. He is Italian, but raised in the states. When I was 14 and while visiting the lake house he owned at the time on Keuka lake in upstate NY, he took me to Watkins Glen race track. When the guard asked for his ID card he said he was visiting a friend, which was actually a ficticious person. THat day he took me to the Ferrari Club's annual track meet for the Northeast. Funny enough, i watched the film for the first time in many years and the first Ferrari I am standing next to has the number 13 on it which is my lucky number. Right now I am 26 and graduated college with a degree in Information Systems. For the last 3 years I have been educating myself in the field of real estate. I just recently took on a business partner (at 20% equity) that is an ex VP of Morgan Stanely and will act as the Investor Relations Director. Other than that my best friend is my other business parter. We are focusing on purchasing non perfroming debt and ivesting in value added real estate. My grandmother passed last year and my grandfather is by himself in Florida and I am in NJ. I hope to raise enough capital in the next year to invest around his area since it a very flourishing area and real estate developers have been doing well despite the market crash. A Modena 360 Spider was always my dream, a F430 would be greedy, but if it happens that way so be it. My dream is to ship the car there, fly out there, and pull up one day and say "I knew you knew I would do it, but I had to show you." When I mean "do it" i dont mean get the car, I mean meet my ultimate goals and be successful in what I do. He grew up in the depression and worked very hard for his family. My family has done the same for me. He always said to remove the word "can't" from my vocabulary, and I have, despite the negativity from many people that are not used to going against the grain. I speak to him at least once a week since he is actually the only person that actually says "I know you'll be successful" My parents support me, but they are more modern "go get a 9-5" people, so its a little more difficult for them to deal with my entrepreneurial outlook on life. I think they are getting a better idea of it since my father was laid off and cannot find work. Regardless, i am working to be able to support them the same way they were able to support me through these times. To those that have dreams, spend your effort on HOW you are going to achieve them, and not on WANTING to achieve them. Decide for yourself your destiny. Other than the people that have money due to inheritance and what not, many people that are able to enjoy fine automobiles like Ferrari's decided on their success and never looked back; at least that is what I learned. Also remmeber to give while you receive. The world and universe works in an interesting manner, money is not everything, happiness it. Being able to contribute and give to society is just as fullfilling as earning. That is the true definition of making a difference. So, sir, what is it that you do day to day? lol BTW: I see you live by the "nothing is impossible rule" when you want something done. More than an incredible job; priceless. What a feeling it's going to be when people question it as a "fake CS" when seeing the manual. Then you politely ask if they would like to run a quarter for some "consideration" haha
Thanks for the kind remarks. It is rather difficult to explain exactly what I do. In short my title is SME (Subject Matter Expert) however that means nothing without context (lol), actually even my girlfriends never understand what I do! Here goes; I design or optimize/refine, implement and assist deployment of mid to large scale solutions to complex technical problems for commerical interests, particularly with emphasis on realtime application/suitability. Typically the devil is in the detail and a lot of 'blue sky' big picture thinking out of the box is a requirement! I tend to optimize or re-architect a lot of existing solutions to products people use every day without thinking about them too deeply (e.g. the broadcast/reception of HDTV 1080p Television). I analyze the technology with an eye to making it work more efficiently at lower costs or with improved performance. I have designed (and been granted patents) in various technologies to facilitate these goals. Your probably more confused now that before you read this message LoL Regards, Trev
Great post! In a nutshell your right. I dont let anyone tell me 'sorry its just not possible' - any problem no matter how complex it first appears to be. Typically any project has hundreds or even thousands of decision points involved (it can be millions in something as large scale as a vehicle). Appreciation of the fact that thousands of individuals will have worked on a product to a particular budget, time and project design breif goal gives you a good perspective. Taking the conceptual design goals back up to the 'big picture' - what do we want to achieve and then working back down to the detail helps the thought process hugely. Typically time factors (or budget restrictions) place the most stress on a project and lead to sometimes rather sub optimal solutions. Take for example Ferrari, they will negotiate a rate with a supplier of say Batteries for all their road cars. A common part across the range in order to get the best pricing, e.g. $20 for the 46lbs (21kg) FIAMM battery in the 360CS, the Modena, the 599, etc. This may work well for the majority of their projects (helping with training, supply of trickle chargers, etc.) but for special projects like the 360CS a battery of 46lbs is sub optimal. In this case external project factors are determining to undermine the no.1 project design goal - 'a lightweight special thats as good on the road as it is on the track'. This is just one example. When you start to analyze all the variable one could argue that indeed the battery (in this case could have saved the CS another 9% weight or 10kgs) may of well presented a good case to optimize. This is the kind of thinking that requires a good analytical approach to managing thousands of variables (most quite often non technical, price, supply, vendor relationship, etc.). Hope this isnt too boring for everyone hoping to read more about my car. . . Sorry gentlemen! Trev
Back on topic.. Reducing Heat Soak problems - Increasing power I have been analyzing the problem of heat soak on the mid engined configuration of the F131 chassis and engine location. After doing some tests with a heat probe it was very apparent that this are huge problems even on the stock engine, let alone with a 50% power gain. There are a number of potential solutions here. Ferrari for instance increase the side air intake dimensions to increase airflow (but slightly worsen the co-efficient of drag) and little else. This works well for a normally aspirated engine but for forced induction it wont be as important (and I'm rather pleased since wont cut and shut the elegant lines of the 360 body in any way). Other options include; o Plexi-glass screen with vent holes or air ducts to force air into the bay and out through the challenge grille. o SPAL style cooling fans attached to the Challenge Rear grill to force extraction of the hot air away from engine bay and from air intake ducting (reduced intake temperatures increase hp). o Anti-cat/Test pipes - remove source of massive heat soak from engine bay o Relocation of exhaust/Smaller design exhaust with heatshield. o Heatshielding from exhaust to airbox. o Ceramic coating of headers and/or full Exhaust using Heat Wrap shielding. This is the no.1 improvement for a massive reduction in under hood temperatures. This can be as much as 70% temperature drop, especially if CATS and full exhaust is heat shielded. This should not only improve horsepower (exhaust gasses will speed up due to effect of scavenging) but will improve the life span of engine bay electronics/wires/etc. Summary These can also be considered on the standard 360/360cs, particularly adding heat shielding wrap to the exhaust, not only is this a cheap thing to do its has many proven benefits. Picture is an example of a carbon heatshield from J.N.Hephaiss Image Unavailable, Please Login
Sir, I must say that I am speechless in regard to your attention to detail on this project. Not only that, but the fact that you find time to post insightful, entertaining posts daily (!!) regarding the development of your car. This will truly be one of a kind. FWIW, I would go the non intrusive route (ie. ceramic coat/wrap exhaust). I have also been involved in smaller projects where this has proven extremely effective. Once again, great job and good luck!!
Thanks so much, I hope I reach the ability to acquire a 360 Spider sooner than later! Great job you are doing, I am a Pisces so i am used to being OC when it comes to stuff like this. EVERYTHING has to be perfect. You should see me when I get into something, hours fly by like minutes when I am consumed.
Thanks everyone for such nice words. Sorry, about no updates in the past few days, the 430 Scuderia caught my attention!! Well I just purchased a set of 19" 360CS wheels yesterday. Today I have been discussing my requirements with an alloy wheel manufacturer who can custom fabricate for me a wheel to my own design and rim width specifications. They said they could make me 'replica's of the original style but with 8.5" fronts and 12" rears. Perfect to keep the OEM look of the CS while going much wider to help get the 600hp and 470Nm of torque to the road! The fun really starts next week as parts for the full on engine conversion including lightweight Forged Mahle Pistons are due to arrive. I will take pictures of all the parts and upload them when I open all the boxes. It will be like opening early xmas presents Watch this space!
Are you sure this is so great? Chevy did this with the same chassis the C5 vette. Magno ride never got good enough (fast enough) to put in the C5Z06. Awesome project by the way. keep the pics coming!
Trev, Congratulations on following your dream/ vision. It is a beautiful thing. The level of thought and work you are executing is simply outstanding. Congratulations!! And I agree with you on the stick shift. best regards, Jerry
Would it be possible to have more pictures of the Beast, inside and out? How did it work out for the custom CS rims? Is the car finished yet? Anywho love the project!!
Trev, when I started reading this thread I checked to see if it was dated April 1st. What an astonishing project! Your "think big" madness is truly inspiring. More power to ya! This is a superb thread and shows the internet at its best. BTW, how tall a building can you leap in a single bound? I do have one negative comment, though. I predict those electronic brakes you're considering will lack the feel and precision of Ferrari's spectacular hydraulic ones. In fact the whole drive-by-wire thing is a step backwards for sports cars. e-throttles, e-steering, e-brakes... I'm not convinced they're ready for prime-time yet on true sports cars. In time, yes, but not yet. My 996 GT3 RS has e-gas, and it's pretty good, but the mechanical linkage on my old Mk-I GT3 was much purer in feel. I don't even want to think about dealing with a computer between me and my brakes or steering. And I totally agree with you regarding paddle-shift vs. manual sports cars. Anyway, thanks for taking the time to keep posting your progress. Awesome!
I may be wrong, but I'm pretty sure Porsche does not use magneto-rheological fluid in their PASM system. I think they electronically vary the valving in the dampers, not the fluid.
Gents sorry for no updates recently - I had a bit of a set back, I managed to kill my engine (this is even before fitting the engine conversion kit!) and its in for repair as we speak - currently believed that the oil pump failed - I lost all oil pressure and plumes of black smoke filled my rear view mirror . It was really frustrating to have this happen so soon after getting it back (literally had the car back less than 2 weeks ...) Anyway work on weight reduction has been ongoing in parallel to engine repairs (briefly discussed on here in another thread) on extending the use of titanium. Weight reduction - A look into Titanium for the Exhaust System After weighing the stock F360 exhaust recently I was shocked and rather dissapointed at the poor weight and sound of the factory fitted product. Not only do they weigh too much and mute the great V8 sound too much but they are known to leak 'white dust' into the engine bay. The baffling material comes out when it gets hot covering everything with dust. Not good quality really. Now its the first thing most people do when they buy a new Ferrari, switch to either a gorgeous Capristo or Tubi system - both aftermarket systems majoring big time on sound quality and looks but still made out of heavy stainless steel. So whats the alternative? Well for Ferrari owners very little development work has been done in this area. Ferrari recently got onto their 'Lightweight is good' theme and have said all their future products will be looking into composite and lightweight materials for better performance, lower fuel bills and bigger smiles all around. This is great news! Actually they already started, the 360CS as we all already know shed 110kgs [242 pounds] (if the full lexan side window, no stereo) options where chosen. Ferrari did have an attempt and shedding some weight off the factory exhaust, they reduced the system weight from 31kgs [68 pounds] to 24kgs [53 pounds] - basically they cut the muffler in half saving 7kg's [15.5 pounds]. Not a bad effort but not exactly pushing the boat out considering the 360CS cost so much more than the standard Modena eh? With lightweight in mind the absolute best way to reduce how heavy a system weighs is to change the production material, stainless steel wont cut the mustard - it looks good, lasts well but just is too heavy. Ferrari already know this, spot the titanium engine valves, wheel lug nuts and suspension springs already present on the 360CS. However Ferrari held back on the exhaust (probably for cost reasons and the fact they already met their weight/performance goals) and still made it out of cheap and heavy stainless steel - a big shame really. Well, after extensive research I found a company who specialises in producing Titanium exhausts for racing series and oem suppliers to some production car manufacturers - they have top quality and good credentials. They actually already produce and manufacture systems for Ferrai and Porsche. More importantly I was shocked to find they have already produced beautiful systems in Titanium for the 360 and F430!!! . The company produces a system that weights a staggering 6 kilo's [13.2 pounds] or 6.5 kilos [14.3 pounds] with the full anti-cat pipes!!! They are called Timate and are based in Taiwan which seriously keeps the production costs down. Their website is http://www.timate.com.tw/index.html and its in English. Do not think that just because they are in Taiwan their product will be poor quality - to the contrary their technology is top notch - just look at the welding quality. Lets look at the advantages here (HUGE) Considering the stock system weights 31kgs [68.3 pounds] and the cats are approx 10kg [22 pounds] each we are already looking at 50kgs [110 pounds] before we even get to the stock manifolds which must weight an awful lot too. Lets just look at the savings here. 51kg - 6.5kgs = 44.5kgs [98 pounds] Saving!!! I kid you not. Fit one of these exhausts and save 44.5kgs [98 pounds] on a stock Modena - even on a stock 360CS you stand to save 37.5kgs [82.6 pounds]! With a direct bolt in Odyssey PC925 gel battery and this exhaust on a Modena your saving 54.5kg [120 pounds]. Without even changing 1 single other thing. Its interesting to think that even on a 360CS, just a full Titanium exhaust (excluding headers) and gel battery can save you another 47.5kgs (thats 105 pounds!) When this system was dyno'd this system (just backbox and tips) in Germany it gave a 25bhp gain with stock 360 Modena cats in place! (will gain a bit less on the 360cs because already back pressure was reduced and power improved). I will ofcourse verify all power claims myself. It will be very interesting to see how it compares to other aftermarket. The Tubi the NGT only weighs 8kg compared to the standard stainless steel item everyone seems to fit which weighs 25.3kgs (56 pounds) which is also worth investigating too. It must be worth stressing the back box is very small so this system will be VERY loud. Here's some pics of a Timate titanium system (no anti-cat pipes shown) vs Modena system Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
