360Stradale 6-speed manual conversion | Page 37 | FerrariChat

360Stradale 6-speed manual conversion

Discussion in '360/430' started by alberto, Jul 11, 2007.

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  1. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    There is a LOT of weight that could have been saved almost everywhere you look...

    I honestly think if the Ferrari engineering team had been given a design brief to drastically lower the weight, rather than simply up the power and go turbocharged (sigh..) like everyone else you could have seen a car with sub 900kg's and 600hp which would be so insane it would blow everything else out of the water for sheer house fly turn in, agility and enjoyment.

    I'd personally like to see the focus for Ferrari on new models on actually downsizing, less weigh needs less power, needs smaller lower weight parts, the "circle of light", the lighter you go the lower the weight of parts needed vs upping weight and using computers to attempt to defy gravity (and at the same time rob the driver of feel, substituting it for 'digitally simulated feel'. My car proves this. I can keep pace with a 458 yet I don't have same levels of power but I do have virtually the same power to weight ratios...
     
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  2. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    I agree. The fascination with ever more power is silly.

    **** with a bit more power and the previously talked about carbon bits you'd likely have a better power to weight ratio of a speciale...!
     
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  3. timwu12

    timwu12 Formula Junior
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    Trev, is this a direct fit or did you need to trim away certain spots to make it fit?
     
  4. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    It was a drop in replacement.
     
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  5. Justicepool

    Justicepool Formula Junior
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    Took me a week, but finally made it through the entire thread. Wow, what a project and level of commitment. Cheers to a great job and incredible passion!

    John
     
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  6. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Thanks John!

    Here are some recent pics..
    With use of Swiss Army Knife tool I've developed I have been doing a lot of customized tweaks to software such as:

    . Engine startup bark extended to 5 seconds (also from hot not just cold)
    . Customization of exhaust valve opening maps and percentage of throttle
    . Use of full factory Challenge Stradale firmware, not just tuner maps with tweaks to make it work without any CEL codes for missing fuel tank pressure sensor only available on post 2003 cars, etc.
    . Secondary o2 delete with bungs fitted, they are only used for cat efficiency on 360 and not even wideband. No CEL ever.
    . Deletion of Cat Ecu sensing and slow down light, currently looking to replace it with a more reliable and much more cost effective solution.
    . Faster switchover to throttle pedal torque requests than default. Makes car feel even more responsive.
    . Recalibration to my rims for abs/asr profile to prevent asr kicking in too early which was a pita before unless I was in race mode.

    And so on... This is transforming the feel of the car even further and making a huge difference to overall feel. I think I will do a patch to make valves open even early in race mode and quieter in normal at some point too. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
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  7. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Trev how would one go about a full ECU swap yet still retain all factory features on a CS? Hearing some talk of ECU's becoming unobtainable and could be a problem in long term ownership. My immediate response was to just swap in a proper aftermarket unit (Motec, Syvecs or similar). Would your Swiss army knife tool be helpful with this at all?
     
  8. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Yes. I can now adapt and use any software variation from any ferrari 360 model year onto any car. Including conversion of used ecus to genuine CS firmware. This approach is vastly better than just swapping some maps as a lot more was done than just maps . I also have tuned cs maps and even maps from Michelotto which I consider the gold standard but not focusing on tuning as not to Step on other sponsors toes...
     
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  9. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Nice, fantastic to hear. As usual your knowledge knows no bounds!
     
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  10. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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  11. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    It's no longer produced now. I suspect it was because the kit unfitted was charged at around 28k gbp or about 35k usd! Probably another 15k to build it so you where looking at around 50k built and fitted.

    In other words it never made any economical sense. If you wanted more power it would be considerably easier to bolt a used F430 engine and box into the chassis and tune it to yield around 550bhp. This would also be preferable in some ways as its a known quantity and easy to get spares for if it goes wrong vs a custom built engine designed in Japan and horrendously expensive. Would love to hear what it sounded like though as they retained the 5 valves per cylinder so it must have screamed unlike the more drone like sound of a F430 engine which was based on 4 valves per cylinder and steel rods vs titanium on the 360...
     
  12. Il Co-Pilota

    Il Co-Pilota F1 Veteran

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    Wouldn't it be easier to convert a manual 360 to a CS?

    CS engine mods, CS body panes, CS Cassis mods and CS interior in a normal 360.
     
  13. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Ah, didn't know it was no longer produced. F430 engine sure makes economical sense but doesn't quite have that 40 valve sound! I do think a set of jenvey ITB's would be worth exploring....and they do carbon trumpets ;).
     
  14. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Agree 100%
     
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  15. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Trev's 360 is a whole lot more than just a CS these days....160kg lighter! Also standard 360 engine is a lot less powerful than Ferrari led us to believe, nowhere close to a CS engine.
     
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  16. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I do not get the idea of replacing the 360 V8 with the 430 V8. The 360 V8 is the last iteration of the 308 V8, and it is a masterpiece that sounds like nothing else, though the 355 V8 is right there with it. Ferrari will never build another 5 valve V8, and nothing - NOTHING! - sounds like a five valve V8. Objectively, the 430 V8 is better, but in every other way it is inferior.

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  17. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    I'm not suggesting to do it. I'm just saying if your target is over 500hp out of the 360 engine from a cost perspective it becomes uneconomical and therefore the least expensive way to achieve that goal would be to retro fit a F430 engine. The F430 also doesn't sound anywhere near as good IMHO compared to the scream of the 360..

    I actually have a spare 360 engine so I'm not disagreeing! Interesting that TODA got virtually the same power output as a F430 out out 4 litres vs 4.3 in the F430 but just evolving the 360 engine. The F430 engine was infact a shared block from Maserati engines for the 4200 series...

    If you really want to hear the best from a 360 engine you need to hear one at 9,500rpm through a titanium pipe... OMG!!!
     
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  18. G. Pepper

    G. Pepper Three Time F1 World Champ
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    I have a valved CS exhaust but stock headers and cats. Changing that to aftermarket headers and cats next winter. Just not sure which ones to get.
     
  19. Themaven

    Themaven F1 Rookie

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    I’m just not sure about that. One of the reasons I bought my 430 is that I found the engine more responsive with more oomph and a better noise than the 360. But this is a whole other conversation!
     
  20. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Technically Ferrari dropped use of flagship titanium connecting rods, 5 valves per cylinder when they replaced the 360 engine.

    The bean counters replaced the exotic and expensive parts by using cheaper parts and got around it with higher cubic capacity. They claimed they met their power targets so where not required.

    The titanium conrods was only used on the Scuderia then and not the base models which is a real shame. You buy a Ferrari because you want the best so knowing it could be better somehow upsets the engineer in me, still at least they put the good parts in the Scuderia..

    In terms of responses, a lot of that is digital these days. You can remap throttle responses with a reflash. The mistake they made on the 360 was not using a lighter flywheel, combined with the ti rods the thing revs like a motorcycle!!!
     
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  21. pilotoCS

    pilotoCS F1 World Champ
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    Please give that a try and get back to us. Thanks.
     
  22. Bas

    Bas Four Time F1 World Champ

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    Plenty of normal 360s been converted to manual, can't see it being much if any harder
     
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  23. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    Easy these days to convert a CS to gated, in fact my SAK Tool supports conversion of CS Ignition ecus to gated already so it's just mechanicals to sort out and removal of the F1 gubbins.

    If I was doing it on a CS I'd relocate the central console a bit further back to make space for the gate and then make a custom cf turret so as to allow easy conversion back in the future. Conversion of a CS to gated can be done in a few days after sourcing appropriate parts. The other way around takes months and costs more than the price of a used CS so totally uneconomical today. Ofcourse you can just swap the stylistic body kit and rims but that doesn't make a CS...
     
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  24. rossocorsa13

    rossocorsa13 F1 Rookie

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    Hey Trev, been following this thread for years and have always been looking forward to a video of your car in action. I remember reading about one in the works but have never seen it posted. Did I miss it?

    Your car is just so different from a normal custom job (let alone factory) that I've always been intrigued to see how different it really is. You've essentially re-engineered a CS, similar to what Jim did with P4/5. I love hearing about your changes, but always want to see and hear the difference they make!
     
  25. 360trev

    360trev F1 Rookie
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    A big update coming here real soon. Videos and everything.
     
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