360 - Heat Exchanger Leak? Gearbox/Coolant | Page 5 | FerrariChat

360 - Heat Exchanger Leak? Gearbox/Coolant

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by FerrariDublin, Feb 8, 2012.

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, Skimlinks, and others.

  1. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2013
    905
    Piemonte, Italia
    You're making it sound easy, or pretty easy anyway. If you find some time, perhaps you could give us some further details.

    It sounds like once you get the seats out and the access hatch open, it's simply a matter of removing the water pump, a couple of clamps, and bingo .......... you have the old heat exchange in hand.

    But I've been around long enough to know that things are rarely that simple. For example, why was removing the hoses behind the water pump a challenge? No room for your hands? No room for a screw driver or nut driver? Something else?

    If this is easy as you make it sound (I hope it is) then I can't imagine taking the entire intake system off to change the heat exchanger.

    Congratulations.
     
  2. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
    Full Name:
    Alan
    I would be interested in knowing this as I may replace mine as a precautionary measure but have no stomach for removing the whole intake system at my age. :)
    Alan
     
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,349
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    It's not a bad job at all. Drain coolant.

    1..remove the two cooler lines from the gearbox.
    2. Undo the clamp that holds the two cooler lines to the oil tank.
    3. Undo and remove the large hose from the expansion tank
    4. Remove access panel behind the seats.
    5. Remove belts.
    5. Remove both timing covers.
    6. Remove both coolant hose from water pump.
    7. Undo the clamps on the heat exchanger at both ends.
    8. Undo the 3 6mm Allen head bolts that fasten the water pump assembly to the engine.
    9. Pull entire assembly towards the front of the car. Remove the 2 smaller coolant hoses that go at the read of the pump.
    10. Pull heat exchanger out from under the intake.

    Install is the reverse of removal. Use a new o ring for the water pump housing, and new sealing washers on the lines for the transmission.
     
    cavlino likes this.
  4. Mozella

    Mozella Formula Junior

    Mar 24, 2013
    905
    Piemonte, Italia
    Thanks. I have no reason to think my heat exchanger or water pump is faulty; however, my next cam belt change is due when my car will be 16 years old, or as much as 18 if I elect to extend the cam belt service time.

    This seems to me plenty old for a water pump and heat exchanger (I think they're both original), especially since a failure of either one is at a minimum a PITA and could turn into a very expensive transmission repair.

    So, based on your very nice summary, it seems to me that making a belt change, precautionary water pump change, and precautionary heat exchanger change all at the same time might be a good idea. I'm quite sure doing this job will produce that warm fuzzy feeling we all crave when we think about our cars. Nobody likes driving a ticking time bomb.

    I'm putting a copy of your summary in my "maintenance tips" folder. Thank you again.
     
  5. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
    Full Name:
    Alan
    Howie
    I've heard that the most difficult part is undoing the rear hose clamp as it's under the center of the intake manifold. If the screw on the hose clamp is facing vertical I would think it would be a PITA to unscrew.
    Any comments?
    Thanks
    Alan
     
  6. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,349
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    That hose goes directly to the bottom of the expansion tank. Remove it from the tank first and you can then pull the entire water pump housing off the engine block far enough to loosen the clamp and then remove the hose. There is no need to remove the water pump from the housing. Just replace the single oring in the block. Replace the thermostat while you have it out.
     
  7. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    Why take the hose off?

    Just another part to put back on.
     
  8. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
    Full Name:
    Alan
    #108 English Rebel, Jun 9, 2014
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    I was talking about clamp #34. Doesn't clamp #35 connect to the distribution manifold #42? Both would seem to be buried under the inlet manifold. Yes the hose that goes from the water pump to the tank can be disconnected at the tank.
    Alan
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  9. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    The 35 clamp at the forward end is very easy to reach. Once the pump is off so are all the others.
     
  10. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,349
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Never really gave it much thought..I just remove it.
     
  11. Need4Spd

    Need4Spd F1 Veteran

    Feb 24, 2007
    6,645
    Silicon Valley
    Do 430s have heat exchangers like this, too?
     
  12. 2NA

    2NA F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 29, 2006
    18,214
    Twin Cities
    Full Name:
    Tim Keseluk
    Different part but similar type. Leaking and cross-contamination is possible.
     
  13. English Rebel

    English Rebel Formula 3

    Aug 13, 2013
    2,158
    Piedmont Area of NC
    Full Name:
    Alan
    I think the 430 H/E is a plate type whereas the 360 is a tube type. Different types but cross contamination is still possible.
    Alan
     
  14. walterlizard

    walterlizard Rookie

    Mar 27, 2014
    7
    Just as an update my intake manifold is now leaking so going from the top saves time because they eventually need to go.

    I have drained the coolant out of the gearbox which was full but that has now created many other issues. I used the right oil in the gearbox but started to get grind in some gear changes (F1). I took the bumper off and took out the filter which was clogged with chunks from the heat exchanger. That was creating a problem with my synchromesh binding up. I ran ATF through the gearbox to clean it out and cleaned with brake fluid. Then filled again with gear oil. I took my time to assure all of the crap was out of the transmission. Now the grinding is completely gone and transmission works great. It took a few rides for the grind to disappear. Not pleasant to hear a grind on the gears.
     
  15. walterlizard

    walterlizard Rookie

    Mar 27, 2014
    7
    BTW, you ask about that rear clamp and if you use a 1/4" ratchet, you can reach it. It is a tight fit though. It's all tight back there. Loosening the hose that goes to the expansion tank is critical. Take it off the expansion tank side before you start so you can pull it through when removing the water pump. The biggest challenge for me was getting the hoses back on the back of the water pump because they are short and there is not a ton of room. It took me a while to get them back on. Sorry about making it seem super easy but it was not miserable. Now that I'm needing to fix the intake I feel a little sad I did not do it from there in the first place.
     
  16. walterlizard

    walterlizard Rookie

    Mar 27, 2014
    7
    If you have this problem don't let the coolant sit in your gearbox. I'm now replacing my gearbox because the coolant that was in there for a short while messed up two of the syncros and created some other problems. Not a cheap repair even though I'm doing it myself.
     
  17. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    Hey, sorry to hear you've sustained damage. Are you just going to replace the gearbox with a used unit or actually carry out renewal of your existing?
     
  18. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
    33,736
    Austin TX
    Full Name:
    Brian Crall
    The problem with that is almost every used unit out there is from a car that lost a heat exchanger. I inspected so many I got tired of it.


    Fix what you have.
     
  19. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jan 28, 2007
    2,506
    Somewhere, anywhere
    Full Name:
    Eddie B
    I agree. I fitted a customer supplied unit to a car a few weeks back that was worse than the one I pulled out. I managed to scrape together a working one out of the two piles of parts (plus a few extras) but after all the wasted labor it worked out no cheaper than a proper repair that would have given him a guarantee....
     
  20. honda.vfr

    honda.vfr Karting

    Jun 22, 2012
    134
    Ostrava, CZ (EU)
    Full Name:
    Milan Pukl
    Today I got the heat exchanger problem on my car... I will drain the gearbox today to dont let the coolant do any damage, but, have you any recommendations to flush the gearbox and how to conservate the inner parts of gearbox before the new exchanger will be fitted?
     
  21. FerrariDublin

    FerrariDublin F1 Rookie

    Jun 14, 2009
    3,452
    Dublin, Ireland
    Full Name:
    Greg
    I guess it depends on how much coolant fluid got into the gearbox. In my case there appeared to be very little cross contamination as I caught it early. I ran the car with a cheap oil of the correct viscosity for about 200 miles and then drained and filled with my favoured oil.

    I had to use detergent and do many, many flushes of the coolant system before all traces of oil were gone.
     
  22. honda.vfr

    honda.vfr Karting

    Jun 22, 2012
    134
    Ostrava, CZ (EU)
    Full Name:
    Milan Pukl
    Thanks for reply, Greg.. There were no traces of cross contamination a month ago when I did the oil and fluids change, but at the time of fail there was a sudden water loss I noticed by the engine temp raise. After draining of the cooling system I got only minor traces of oil in the coolant,but the gearbox was full of coolant mixed with oil, around ten litres of the goo. I flushed the gearbox with diesel, then with ATF few times, then with gear oil but with no driving the car as I still dont have the New exchanger. But the oil still goes out contaminated. Your opinion to do more flushes like this or just fit the New part and change the oil after short test drive or drives?
     
  23. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2005
    1,728
    Canada, Florida
    Full Name:
    Fred
    Newbie question here; I have followed this and other threads on this heat exchanger issue. So what are you folks replacing it with? The same OEM or aftermarket? I read a while back someone referring to it as a potential ticking time bomb. My notes also indicate a couple of aftermarket ones made by a company called Dynamic Tech Group and one in Canada sold by Daytona (absolutely no affiliation with either company). I would love to be proactive and change mine at the next major 2 years from now since I suspect by then the HE would be 13 years old. Or am I worried for nothing?

    Please and thanks
     
  24. rustybits

    rustybits F1 Rookie
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Jan 28, 2007
    2,506
    Somewhere, anywhere
    Full Name:
    Eddie B
    Just put the original one in. They fail predominantly due to lack of coolant changes. The aftermarket offerings have been around five minutes and have likely had no testing whatsoever. The original units are many years old and only fail due to abuse...
     
  25. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Aug 8, 2005
    1,728
    Canada, Florida
    Full Name:
    Fred
    Thanks Eddie. In 3 months of ownership I have already flushed the coolant system and intend to do it annually (before its winter snooze) . Hopefully then I will be okay.
     

Share This Page