360: Cooling System maintenance | FerrariChat

360: Cooling System maintenance

Discussion in '360/430' started by hessank, Apr 5, 2019.

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  1. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Aug 8, 2005
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    Fred
    I'm changing the rad coolant and decided to do some some preventative maintenance.
    • Flush with Valvoline Zerex G05 (3'rd time now in 4 years of ownership). Overkill, I know but trying to finally get rid of the green stuff car came with.
    • Fan switch
    • Fan Resistor
    • Remove front bumper and refurbish both fans
    • Install a proper FIAMM Twin Air Trumpets while the bumper is off.

    Question: Referring to the Ricambi diagram the Fan Switch requires a Gasket #101508. However, if you look at the Fan Switch it already comes with an o-Ring.

    Please advise which gasket is most suitable to use.
    Please and thanks

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  2. BlacktopRacing

    BlacktopRacing Formula Junior

    Sep 18, 2016
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    Dale
    Sorry I don't have an answer to you question, but I'd like to hear more about which horns you selected, as well as would like to hear them. I've been thinking about doing this too, as the OEM horn is just so generic. Also, you sound very polite
     
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  3. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Thank you Dale.
    It will sound like this

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  4. mello

    mello F1 Veteran
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    I would just use the gasket that comes with the fan switch along with a small dab of thread sealant on the switch.
     
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  5. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Thank you Steve
     
  6. albkid

    albkid Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
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    Fred:

    As you have undoubtedly become an expert in flushing your coolant, can you detail what steps you took to flush your system?

    When I flushed my coolant last summer, it took 14 gallons of water to get the residual color of the drained coolant to be nearly clear. I did not pull the engine drain plugs. I even pressurized the system to about 10 psig to help expel the coolant through the radiator drain plugs. It made small improvement..
     
  7. fotostars

    fotostars Formula Junior

    Feb 6, 2015
    341
    Bay Area
    So back on topic: Is that Valvoline Zerex G05 the "Approved" coolant to replace the Glycoshell? What is being used by all you independent and Ferrari Techs out there? I've read a bunch on the subject but couldn't really find good info...
     
  8. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Jim I'm on my 3rd flush and the coolant was still greenish. Just to keep it simple I only use the rad drains in front. I don't want to use the block drains.
    Also mine is a Spider and unless you are a contortionist you cannot get to the Bleed Screw by the waterpump. Yes, of course you could if you removed the inside access cover.
    My way is easy and painless which means I can do it often. At least I know that close to 50% of the fluid gets replaced with new one every Spring. I'm ok with that.

    Later on I will figure out the correct size of Fumoto Valve that should fit the block drains and stall those. I've had them on my old Porsche for years and that prevents me from cross threading a drain on install and buggering the block. Works like a charm to drain the block.

    Refilling correctly to prevent air pockets as well as ensuring that the Fan Switch is covered with coolant is the biggest concern. Most people use an Air/Vacuum Pump which I purchased but so far my re-fill method works (for me) and it is still in the box.

    Look at this diagram of the hose setup. You will see that there are 2 vent hoses that are routed to the top of the reservoir. If you could pull vacuum on these hoses until you see a consistent flow of coolant I guarantee the rad will have to be full of fluid or else you will suck air.
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    At the RESERVOIR Tank identify the two hoses in the diagram above coming from the top of the RADIATOR and the WATER PUMP ASEMBLY. They are located at the back and bottom right side of the reservoir if looking towards the front of the car. Each is attached via a small gear clamp. Remove the gear clamps and then pull out the hoses and then just slightly re-attach back onto the reservoir. The hose on the rhs is the vent coming from the top of the radiators. The one on the left hand side is attached to the Water Pump Assembly.
    Refill the system by adding fresh fluid to the RESERVOIR Tank until the level does not change (it stays full).

    Venting is now required to remove air trapped on top of the RADIATOR as well as in the pipework and even in the block

    Remove the RADIATOR vent hose and attach it to the suction hose of the Vacuum Extractor Pump. Start pumping to create vacuum and suck the air out of the vent hose and from on top of the RADIATOR until only coolant and no air is seen flowing. Pay attention to the RESERVOIR because as air is drawn out of the RADIATOR it will be replaced with fresh coolant from the RESERVOIR. So try keeping the RESERVOIR full. Stop when a constant flow of only fluid is observed, signifying that the RADIATORs and vent hoses are both full of coolant. The purpose of this step is to ensure that the double acting RADIATOR FAN SWITCH installed high up on the RADIATOR gets covered with coolant; otherwise it will not send the signal to the fan relays and the fans will not run and the car will overheat.. It cannot read the coolant temperature if there is air around it.

    Re-install the RADIATOR vent hose to the RESERVOIR with the gear clamp.

    Attach the other vent hose from the top of the water pump to the Vacuum Extractor Pump and in a similar fashion remove the trapped air while maintaining the RESERVOIR full. Re-attach hose back onto the RESERVOIR only when coolant is flowing freely to the Vacuum Extractor Pump

    Use the Vacuum Extractor to suck out some of the coolant from the RESERVOIR until the level is about 1 – 1.5” below the neck of the Head Tank.

    Assuming that the other systems are good to go run the car with the Heater set to Full Heat and ensure that the primary RADIATOR FAN cycles (Passenger or rhs comes on first) as the temperature rises.

    It sometimes takes several cycles (hot/cool down) including a short drive around to get to the desired coolant level in the RESERVOIR
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

    Like I said earlier, you asked and this works for me. May not for others.
     
  9. albkid

    albkid Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
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    Fred:

    Thank you for the detailed procedure you posted. I will keep it in mind when I do another coolant renewal.

    I was able over a number of attempts to purge the air in the system using the bleed screw on the engine.

    I used a long socket extension (8 inch) with a 10mm socket. I secured everything with blue painters tape to add some security to the assembly from it falling apart when opening and closing the bleed screw.

    Finding the screw required the use of a wife's hand mirror. I had to perch myself over the front of the engine to catch the screw with my socket. Naturally, the engine is turning, however, I did not feel any danger from what I was doing. It took about three attempts -- including a number of engine on/off cycles -- to finally get a clear stream from the bleed hole. I never removed the screw completely. I was adding coolant to the tank during each attempt. In subsequent drives, I did have to add a small amount of coolant to the reservoir to maintain the proper level in the tank.

    The effort was worthwhile. I found the engine running cooler at normal driving with an ambient temperature of 90 degrees. This indicated to me that the last time the coolant was renewed, that the mechanic did not bleed the system properly. Another mark for what sometimes takes place at a Ferrari dealer.

    Attached is a word document from a Ferrari Chat posting that gave me the idea of use an air compressor to help evacuate the system.

    The attached picture is a record of my 14 gallons of fluid change. In the foreground is my QuickJack frames for raising the 360.

    I recall I had to search local auto parts suppliers for the correct formulation of the Zerex G-05 phosphate free antifreeze product.
     

    Attached Files:

  10. mike32

    mike32 F1 Veteran

    May 13, 2016
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    Isle of man- uk
    If it is pulling up against a flat surface i would use the gasket with a thin film of jointing paste on both sides. Use the O ring and it might squeeze out when tightened or gets hot.
    Like you say 3 changes in 4 years is overkill- my 430 gets a change every 4 years on the main dealers recommendation.
    I would put fram air horns on my 430 but no room to fit them, in place of the oem
     
  11. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    #11 Rifledriver, Apr 9, 2019
    Last edited: Apr 9, 2019

    Use Shell Rotella Ultra ELC or Cat ELC and do it every 4 or 5 years and save yourself a lot of trouble.

    Buy an Airlift and save yourself a lot more trouble, time and mess. No air to purge and filling takes about 45 seconds.

    Did you pressure test the cap? If not, putting in good coolant is a waste of time. The caps are trash and if correct pressure is not maintained all the anti cavitation additives are a waste of time and cannot protect the engine from the destructive forces of cavitation eating through the cylinder liners.
     
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  12. hessank

    hessank Formula 3
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    Rifledriver:
    Thanks for your input. Yes, I do have an Airlift but haven't used it yet. Next time. I changed to a new cap (bought several of the cheap caps someone here found last year, I think).
    Yes, I agree that the G05 is not a Long Life Coolant like the Shell Rotella Ultra ELC but you( or maybe it was Curt, Taz, Motob or FBB as I consider you folks to be Professionals) indicated earlier that this engine needed Nitrites for the wet cylinder liners to prevent liner cavitation erosion and the Shell did not have Nitrites.
    I am always learning, did I get that wrong?

    Mike32 I'm trying to get the last of the Prestone green coolant from the system that the PO used. My car came with no maintenance history and I am trying to make one because I believe it is a good car (a keeper)
     
  13. spider348

    spider348 Formula 3

    Nov 3, 2003
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    I followed Rifledriver's recommendation years ago to purchase an AirLift. Great Tool! Used successfully on my former 348 spider, F355 spider and will use on my current 360 spider.
     
  14. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

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    A. Of that group only Motob is a professional. Why nitrites? They are seriously behind the times. Better compounds have been invented. This is 2019 not 2001.
     
  15. Skippr1999

    Skippr1999 F1 Rookie
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    What is the procedure / tools used to pressure test these caps ?
     
  16. Rifledriver

    Rifledriver Three Time F1 World Champ

    Apr 29, 2004
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    Pressure tester and adapter.
     
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  17. tazandjan

    tazandjan Three Time F1 World Champ
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    Jul 19, 2008
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    Like Brian said, the new ELCs have organic acid technology to replace the nitrites that prevent cavitation erosion. Those will last up to 5 years compared to two years for nitrites. Since my coolant is replaced every other year with a pressure filler, not much difference in results.
     
  18. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    Nov 27, 2003
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    Hello. The workshop manual is not 100% clear on this - do you open the bleed screw with the engine running, or simply warm?

    Thanks,

    Wayne
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  19. albkid

    albkid Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
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    Engine warm and idling. Thermostat opened. Used a hand mirror to sight bleed screw. Took two attempts to rid system of air. What I considered to be a small amount of coolant leaked past bleed screw when opened.
     
  20. Wayne 962

    Wayne 962 Formula Junior
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    Thanks. Cracked it open first without the engine hot, but not running and coolant immediately came out the top. So, there was no air there.

    Thanks,

    Wayne
     
  21. rizzo308

    rizzo308 F1 Rookie
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    I was going to fit the twin air horns till I found this little compact air horn perfect fit behind the bumper. I went the CS bumper option and deleted the useless H/light washers and water res, peace of p#ss to fit and it now sounds the way it should. Sound is v simular to a 355. You will need to cover the air horn completely to stop the water from hitting the motor.

    Cheers
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  22. albkid

    albkid Formula Junior

    Jul 1, 2016
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    Wayne:

    Not to rain on your parade, but heat does cause expansion of metal components and there maybe some embolisms of air trapped in the system. I would recommend you test the vehicle cooling system at the bleed screw with the engine running. I also neglected to mention that it would be a good idea to have the heat on in the cabin. There is a lot of piping of coolant from the engine to the dual radiators in the nose.

    As I said, if you have most of the air evacuated, the amount of fluid that leaks past the drain screw is quite small, and does not make a mess if you work slowly in opening the screw.

    Regards,

    Jim
     
  23. tonino ct

    tonino ct Karting

    Mar 1, 2018
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    tonino tony
    Hi Al. What is the proper way to drain the sistem. I m changing the coolant from green to blue. Thanks
     

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