360 Challenge Fuel Bladder Expiration/Replacement | FerrariChat
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360 Challenge Fuel Bladder Expiration/Replacement

Discussion in 'Tracking & Driver Education' started by Bahb7, Jan 27, 2012.

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  1. Bahb7

    Bahb7 Karting

    May 8, 2011
    87
    Boston, MA area
    #1 Bahb7, Jan 27, 2012
    Hi All,
    I originally posted this in the "Challenge Cars" section, but got no replies, so I'm trying a re-post here.....


    I have a few questions regarding the fuel bladders on the 360 challenge cars. I'm considering purchasing a 2002 360 Challenge race car that will be coming up for sale shortly. I know the fuel bladder dates have expired already on this car. The shop mechanic says that that bladders "look" to be in good shape....ie no visible cracking, no leaks, etc. I also know that ATL sells replacement bladders for the rediculous price of $6k or so just for the bladders. I've been told that labor is additional $6k or so because you have to drop the engine to replace the bladders. So my questions are as follows:

    1) Is there a lower cost alternative to the ATL's?

    2) I'm mechanically inclined, and would have no problem diving in to do a a clutch, or timing belts, for example, as long as I have a shop manual, time and motivation (the latter two seem to be in short supply lately). Is there a shortcut to replacing the bladders that does not involve dropping the engine?

    3) If the bladders "look" ok, are they reasonably safe to do trackdays for a few years before they REALLY need to be replaced?

    4) I would like to race the car too once I get comfortable with it. Does FCRA require the bladders to be up to date? I couldn't find it in the technical rules and regs. Also, does anyone know if NASA or SCCA require up to date bladders in whatever class a 360 challenge would fit into?

    5) Does anyone know what class a largely stock 360 challenge would fit into for NASA or SCCA? From what I've read, I think it would be SCCA T1 but would need roll cage mods?

    I searched the forum for the fuel bladder questions and was not able to find anything. I'd like to get some input on these things pre-purchase. If I end up having to do the bladder replacement at the shop, I'd like to factor in the $12k repair bill into my purchase calculations.


    Thanks in advance for your help!
     
  2. fatbillybob

    fatbillybob Two Time F1 World Champ
    Consultant Owner

    Aug 10, 2002
    28,563
    socal
    #2 fatbillybob, Jan 27, 2012
    First I race SCCAT1 in Socal so I hope you join. T1 is a great class and even the guys from the rest of the country sort of all know each other as the forums bring us closer together. When T1 racers form other areas come to our town on business etc. we always make it a point to meet them for a meal. It makes for great comraderie at the Runoffs. So if you are ever in Socal make sure you contact me.

    You will probably need to weld your cage together at the bolt together places but bolt it to the chassis is OK for aluminum cars. Really if you race like us in Socal (we are cough cough non-contact) I'd be welding my cage and building a seat frame to weld to the cage so that the seat is bolted to the cage. This is the safest way so if the car goes away you are contained in the safety cage.

    You can also run NASA ST2 or SCCA ITE and Other classes to with modifications.

    The reason for replacing bladders is because they get hard and crack. A proper cell is a vital part of your safety system and needs extra careful attention once you depart from engineered and tested OEM systems. You cannot "look" at bladders period. They ALL look good until they aren't. T1 does not require cells but if you use them you must comply with ATL's maintenance. Tech in your area may be ignorant of your cell and you might slide under the cracks if the cell is in the oem location and looks stock from the outside. If it is in an ATL can you done. But you can ask that specific ? to your local SCCA tech or post that to the tech section of the SCCA forums. The other thing you need to do is get the old foam out of the bladder. Cells are a nightmare due to high maintenance and cost. Old Foam will break down in the gas and foul the fuelpumps and then your filters and then injectors. Cells are not designed to have fuel sitting in them. They recommended to store them dry between races. So when you pick that car up and they fire the car right up to prove it starts that could be a clue that they just leave fuel in there which acelerates the foam breakdown.

    When you look to buy that car remember that FIA seats are good for 5 years except the latest ones, fire tanks 5 years, harnesses 2-5 years and look for the SFI 45.1 imprint on all rollcage padding

    Good luck!
     
  3. windsock

    windsock Formula 3
    Rossa Subscribed

    Nov 29, 2006
    1,129
    #3 windsock, Feb 2, 2012
    It is not necessary to remove the engine to access fuel cells. I have dopne it several times. Removing the inner fender lines and there is a large removable access panel to remove the cells with the tank and engine in place. As far as the replacement recommendation, yes replace them, yes use ATL, yes use new foam. They are only important when you are in an accident and there is no accurate way to visualy test them.
     
  4. k wright

    k wright Formula 3
    Silver Subscribed

    Feb 4, 2004
    2,496
    North East TN
    Full Name:
    Kent Wright
    #4 k wright, Feb 3, 2012
    Call Fuel Safe for a quote. Great products at a more reasonable price.
     
    Performify likes this.
  5. cwwhk

    cwwhk Formula 3

    Nov 13, 2003
    1,535
    Hong Kong, Tokyo
    Full Name:
    Wayne
    #5 cwwhk, Feb 4, 2012
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    Don't know the technical answer to your question, but personally my way of thinking is that if I just had a huge shunt like this one at over 200kph into the armco barrier my team mate just had in Macau GP, how much will I pay to make sure the fuel cell did not leak while I am injured and stuck in the car!
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