Hi Guys Is the 360 6 speed manual shift price going up ?...are they rare ? seen very hard to find gate shift cars.... Can someone help me with some info... looking to buy a 360 or 355 gate shift thanks
To some (who aren't looking for one BTW) they made "a ton"... supposedly 10-20% of the entire production run. Clearly many many cars to choose from. When they're looking to buy one, it becomes apparent how full of it the above statement is. Not easy to find on the open market, and when you do expect a premium over an F1 model for a given condition car. What kind of info are you looking for specifically?
I am assuming you want a coupe. If 20% were stick then there were ~1600 made at the factory. IF the US got 35% of the total allotment ~560 cars came stateside. Some are totaled, some are trashed. Very few are for sale. I will let you draw your own conclusions.
I spoke to dealer at FoA, to a guy who has been selling Ferraris new since 1987. His orders for 6 speeds - not necessarily reflective of exact production numbers, though a good cross-section - amounted to 14% of the total he ordered. He said sunroof cars with 6 speeds amounted to exactly 1 car he sold during the 360 production. He called it "rare, but stupid" so it may only translate into an oddity, not necessarily a popularly pursued car. I so agree with vrsurgeon on 'in the eye of the beholder/purchaser/seller' as to rarity and value. But you can guarantee that the current fever over 3-pedal cars has carried into the 360's, 430's, 575's at a decently dizzying pace in ascending order to the way I just listed them. Forget the 599s or rumored Cali's with 3 pedals. The rub is that IF Ferrari decides to build the new Dino with 3 pedals, most of this instant inflation gets rather deflated in a "last American convertible" sort of way. Of course, there are others on this forum who may have knowledge one way or the other on this topic. I do not. I do know that the Porsche dealer called me about a 'real 6 speed 911 Carrera GTS' that was mystifyingly not going to happen last year.
Even at 20% it's not a lot of cars. Figure less than 50% are coupes so probably 1500-1800 manual Modenas. Of those how many are not maintained to a desirable state and may be in a less than desirable colour combination... When I bought mine this Spring there were three red manual Modenas in Canada and one was a basket case. The other had a black interior and was too far away. The one I bought was the only one with what I wanted, perfect history and came from a reputable seller.
I think a new model Dino (probably 6 cyl) or whatever that emphasized driver involvement would just re-kindle what is important in driving. I don't know if it would negatively impact the price of Vintage V8 or V12 gated cars.
I just think Ferrari owners tend to have a skewed understanding of the realities of the world until they actually experience the realities of the world. True a Daytona is rare and by comparison they made a "ton" of 360's and 430's... but that doesn't mean that it's like buying a silver 997 in a stick. There really AREN'T many cars to choose from in the country when it really comes down to it. The "Dino" will be a PDK/Flappy paddle. Ferrari isn't going to make another 3-pedal until enough new buyers come up and write a letter to the Factory with cash in hand offering to pay an extra $100,000 for it (that should reach the engineering threshold at 30 -40 buyers). So basically until the Justin beebers, Rap stars, and grey hair lots of money but a bad back never drives the car buyers demand them... ain't gonna happen. They don't give a rats about the used buyer. If I had a business that converted 458's to stick and ZF manual transmissions.. I'd go broke waiting for customers. Sorry to be dour, but I don't see the market with new Ferrari buyers (besides myself of course ).
The real number is much higher. 2306 manual Modenas and 2119 manual Spiders for about 27.6% of production. Numbers from Ferrari through Maranello Concessionaires. Not as rare as most think, but still an ~3:1 ratio of F1 to manual (11630:4425, 2.6:1).
Kevin- No clue about 100% accurate numbers. US production I only have for four years from NHTSA, 01 723, 02 684, 03 885 04 950. 3242 plus some missing from 99, 00, and 05 (1000 as a real WAG and probably low). So 4200 x 0.25 = 1050 with way too many guesses included. 800-1200 probably bounds the real number
Billy- Here is where you can find some US production numbers, but many years are missing and for some years models are combined. Still handy. Someone here showed me where this was, so thanks. Theft Rates | National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA)
See? Now this is the type thing that pays for your Fchat membership right there. Taz, thank you for your authoritative response. This is also one of the posts that should be a sticky in the 'Buying a 360' thread so it'll be there.
I dunno, I think the removable sunroof hatch is kind of cool. I guess if you wanted a slick electric one, the hatch would seem "stupid", but you have to stop and remove T- Tops in a similar fashion, and store them away... To the OP, 6 speeds are rare in the market now, as people are keeping them, but there is a very nice one, a freshly serviced Spider too, way down in our Ads here. I don;t know that it ever sold, it just dropped down as no one was commenting on it. I wanted to buy it but the Bank laughed, the &^%$*&^%!!
I know that you're very anti-Ferrari and anti-Ferrari people but but that's more than a little far fetched, even for you. There is only one Bieber and I can't imagine there are many rap stars who can actually afford a Ferrari and not just lease for videos. I don't know how you can blame a handful of people (less than 40?) for killing an entire market segment, especially since Bieber didn't own Ferrari until the 458, which was already all paddle. Also, most of the grey hair Ferrari owners that I know have manual cars and don't like the paddles. If you want to blame the people who never learned to drive manual transmission properly and suddenly decided that Ferrari was "THE THING" to pose in. I don't know what sent them rushing to buy Ferraris instead of whatever they spent their money on before but at some point they did and they killed the manual transmission market. To the OP, 360 manuals are somewhat hard to find in the marketplace but notas hard to find in the world. There's one in my garage and I know that I won't part with it and I know that I'm not alone. If you do something along the lines of 360Trev's blueprint, they're amazing cars with wonderful character.
Kevin- Total US production was somewhere around 4200 three pedals, so 800 is 19% and the 1200 number is because we do not know how many were built in 1999, 2000, and 2005 and 1000 was a really conservative (probably quite a bit higher) estimate. if it was 2000 for those three years combined and 25%, the total would be 1300.
Thanks for the info Terry. For sake of argument lets say your estimate of 1300 total US is correct. What do you think the US split is coupe to spider? 50/50? So 650 coupe/650 spiders? Let's go one level deeper. If 650/650 any guess as to how many US are red coupe/red spider? (just curious)? Just bought a gated spider (red). Bought for love. Not investment!
Compared to what we could get in the past.. Yes! The only cars I see in the $60's are the salvage cars. Soo happy I held out for a stick.
But why would you? There's nothing to replace it with. If you want smaller and more old school, you get a 348/355. You can't get that same package that the 360 offers in a manual. The F430, with it's tiny flywheel and different engine management isn't as suited to being a manual car as the 360 is. If you like that 360/430 package and you want a manual, the manual 360 is the one that really fits that bill. As mentioned before, you can dial it in to a pretty high level and really get a spectacular driving car.
I as well, not a Spider, but a 2000 gated Modena in Rosso Fiorano red, even more of a rarity. Here is some info I got as far as production numbers and color: About 50% of Modenas built are Rosso Corsa red, 20% silver, 10% yellow, 10% blue, 9% black and "other" is 1%. There were about 8500 360 Modena made in total, assume 1% were in Rosso Fiorano, that would be about 85 total. From that only about 30% were manual shift, so 85 x 0.3 is about 25 total Rosso Fiorano 6-speed manuals in the world for all years combined. Of course this is just a guess, but must be pretty close.
