355 Long term fuel trim: bank 1: 9.4 bank 2: 10.9 what does this mean? | FerrariChat

355 Long term fuel trim: bank 1: 9.4 bank 2: 10.9 what does this mean?

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by johan6504, Nov 22, 2006.

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  1. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,168
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Johan
    I hooked up my 355 GTS 98 to a OBD software and collected some data today. The long term fuel trim is 9.4/10.9 can anyone tell me if this is a worrying number and if I need to anything about it? What is considered normal?
    I think it means that the system compensates for some problem by adding 10% more fuel, could it be a vacuum leak? What else would give me this behaviour?
     
  2. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,168
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Johan
    I also found out that this value doesn’t seem to be effected after disconnecting the battery to reset the ECU, is that correct?
     
  3. lndshrk

    lndshrk Formula Junior

    Nov 7, 2003
    753
    SLC, Utah
    Full Name:
    Jim Conforti
    If indeed your fuel system is adding ~10% to trim lambda, here are some
    of the possible issues.

    There are NOT in order of probability - consider them a stream of consciousness.

    1) Exhaust system pre-cat air leaks - affecting the O2 sensor readings.
    2) MAF contaminated and reading less air than inducted
    3) Intake system air leaks - unmeasured air
    4) Low fuel pressure

    Those are just the first four I can think of late nite before Thanksgiving.

    Jim

    PS: The question begs: have you modified your car in any way?
     
  4. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,168
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Johan
    Hi Jim
    Thanks for the tips, I have started reading about the LTFT and STFT on the web and there are plenty of info out there, maybe too much :)

    No I havnt modified the car in any way, but I changed the pre cat O2 sensors a few month ago, as they were getting luggish. I didnt change the post cat O2 sensors, could they have anything to do with these values?

    Johan
     
  5. bartmandial 8

    bartmandial 8 Rookie

    Sep 3, 2006
    44
    Olympia WA
    Full Name:
    Bret
    Hello, As far as the oxygen sensor replacement, always replace them in pairs. If the pre cat sensor was sluggish, so is the rear. They both feed the engine computer information about the efficiency/operation of the cat converter. If the pre sensor is now new and cycling fast and the rear is old and sluggish, it could give the computer false information and trim the fuel as to where it thinks it needs to be.
    This system is an OBD2 system, disconnecting the battery will not erase the long trim fuel values. OBD1 systems will erase the memory when the battery is disconnected.
    Short Term Fuel Trim Description
    The short term fuel trim is a PCM erasable memory register. The neutral value for the short term fuel trim is 0%. Any deviation from 0% indicates the short term fuel trim is changing the injector pulse width. The amount of pulse width change depends on how far the short term fuel trim value is from 0%. The short term fuel trim is rich when the scan tool indicates -99%. The short term fuel trim is lean when the scan tool indicates 99%. The short term fuel trim changes the pulse width by varying the Closed Loop factor of the base pulse width equation. As the PCM monitors the oxygen sensors input, it is constantly varying the short term fuel trim value. The value is updated very quickly, therefore, the short term fuel trim only corrects for short term mixture trends. The correction of long term mixture trends is the function of long term fuel trim. When the PCM determines that the Short Term Fuel Trim is out of the operating range, the following DTC's will set:
    *DTC P0171 Bank 1 Too Lean.
    *DTC P0172 Bank 2 Too Rich.
    *DTC P0174 Bank 1 Too Lean.
    *DTC P0175 Bank 2 Too Rich.
    Long Term Fuel Trim Description
    The long term fuel trim is a matrix of cells arranged by RPM and MAP. Each cell of the long term fuel trim is a register like the short term fuel trim. As the engine operating conditions change, the PCM will switch from cell to cell to determine what long term fuel trim factor to use in the base pulse width equation. While in any given cell, the PCM also monitors the short term fuel trim. If the short term fuel trim is far enough from 0%, the PCM will change the long term fuel trim value. Once the LTFT value is changed, it should force the STFT back toward 0%. If the mixture is still not correct (as judged by the HO2S), the STFT will continue to have a large deviation from the ideal 0%. In this case, the LTFT will continue to change until the STFT becomes balanced. Both the STFT and LTFT have limits which vary by calibration. If the mixture is off enough so that LTFT reaches the limit of its control and still cannot correct the condition, the STFT would also go to its limit of control in the same direction. If the mixture is still not corrected by both STFT and LTFT at their extreme values, a Fuel Trim Diagnostic Trouble Code (DTC) will likely result. When the PCM determines that the LTFT is out of the operating range, the following DTC's will set:
    *DTC P0171 Bank 1 Too Lean.
    *DTC P0172 Bank 2 Too Rich.
    *DTC P0174 Bank 1 Too Lean.
    *DTC P0175 Bank 2 Too Rich.
    Sorry for the long post, but hope this helps.
    Bret
     
  6. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,168
    Sweden
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    Johan

    Thanks Bret

    As I said, there is a lot of long explenations about this subject :) from what you are saying it would make sense to change the post cat o2 sensors as well.
     
  7. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,168
    Sweden
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    Johan
    #7 johan6504, Nov 23, 2006
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 7, 2017
    When looking at the values for the post cat O2 sensors they seem to be static, the value does not change much. Are they dead for real or do they behave in a nother way than the pre cat O2 sensors?
    Could it have something todo with wiring the bypass valve open?
    Image Unavailable, Please Login
     
  8. Ricard

    Ricard Formula Junior

    Jan 23, 2004
    867
    Donington Park
    Full Name:
    Richard C
    Which is it?
     
  9. johan6504

    johan6504 Formula 3

    Jun 28, 2005
    1,168
    Sweden
    Full Name:
    Johan
    Sorry missed that one :) Yes the car is modified
     
  10. No Doubt

    No Doubt Seven Time F1 World Champ

    May 21, 2005
    72,740
    Vegas+Alabama
    Full Name:
    Mr. Sideways
    Low battery voltage (e.g. dead cell, dying alternator, etc.) will also cause Motronic systems to increase the fuel injector pulse width to compensate for the low voltage.

    Has your car ever been jump-started? Old battery? Alternator not charging?
     

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