Hi all, Like many people here, I'm just getting into the ferrari ownership game. I've been looking at a 97 355 spider which has been well maintained. HOwever, the last owner had a burnt exhaust valve and cylinder liner replaced which, although done properly, worries me. Is this common and what could cause it? Cheers, M
You could be busy for a couple of days by reading what is in the archives on this topic. Search valve guides, headers, exhaust manifolds and valves. I really don't think there is anything to be said that hasn't been said several times. If you read that and still have questions ask again.
How long did he keep his car after replaced burnt exh. valve and cylinder liner? And the reason he sold his car. Those should help determine if he satisfied with the replacements. But for sure the car was heavily driven...
Maybe I should start another thread on this..but here it gose.. Why is it so bad to repaire a Ferrar? Why is it so terriable that the enigne has been apart and a liner and valve were replaced? Would you even think twice if it was a ford or a chev? I doubt it. These cars have pistons, valves, camshafts, crankshafts, and run on the same damn fuel the guy next to you is pumping into his tempo. I'll bet if the head gasket it went on his tempo, and was repaired you would not be concerned one bit, why on earth does it become such an issue when it comes to Ferrari's? The job the majoity of the time will be done right..no shop wants to eat a repair bill on a Ferrari. I understand that they are expensive cars to fix..but at the end of the day they are cars, which work on the same principles as anyother run of the mill auto. Once you understand this..you will no longer be afraid of them.
From my experience, "burnt valves" are just yet another automotive myth. Whenever I heard this, I could never get a straight plausible answer as to what they are and what causes them. Only ridiculous ones like running straight exhaust will burn valves etc . Anyone have any insight?
Plenty. I am sorry you think it a myth. It is about as much myth as a flat tire but to cover a subject that basic here would take too much space and time. Do an internet search and I am sure you will find volumns written on the subject. It is a well known problem that has plaqued internal combustion engines with poppet valves since their inception.
Talk to Dave Helms he's the one that rebuilt it. There is nothing wrong with a properly rebuilt Ferrari motor. If such motor has gone through the hands of someone like Dave Helms of Scuderia Rampante it will come back better than new. Saying that I would only trust a specialist of this caliber to do this type of work. This is no myth either it was heavily discussed on the old site and the owner was pissed that FNA would not help in anyway. I also know the person he sold it to and the final person that it was sold to (that I know of) as with the last three owners is a member of this site. It's a great running car and was never sold because of maintenance issues. Dave Helms is a member of this site and frequents the technical Q&A forum, so I would try posting the question there and see if he responds.
Of course many other cars will end up with engine rebuilds at some point, but I worry when its such low mileage (30k). Having looked at a number of other posts, it seems not uncommon. How much (if at all) should this be reflected in the value? It puts me off as a buyer, so I guess its going to have the same effect when I try to sell it on
I'm with Tom if the job was done by a shop that has a reputation for good work. If you have spent much time reading here you will find that a very high percentage of 355 have had serious engine work done. Some would even go so far as to say if it hasn't had it will. Well that one has had it already.
Just a quick comment on 355 engines. I have a 355C with 12000 miles, 6800 of those miles are hard race miles. My service records show no. 6 piston, liner, rings and exhaust valve replacement at 6800 miles among other refreshing items but no other pistons, liners or rings . My compression numbers are 195-200 the last time I checked at 10000 miles. That has to say something for the durability and quality of ferrari motors.
I have a 355 with 10K and have had no work done other than service and I paid a bit more to get that. Having said that, knowing that Dave did the work is valuable piece of mind. If he says it's fine it probably is and he would have seen any other issues when he had it apart. In some ways, more visability than if the car never had an issue. Ask him if he knows the car, I'm sure he'll remember.
Valve guides.....that's what he's asking about not so much burnt valves. Yes, the 355 has a valve-guide issue and it will notoriously plague the car forever. Research will show that it's incredibly exaggerated and only happens to a few cars. It's luck of the draw. The thing that bothers me is that for a problem that is supposedly over-exaggerated and over-done...it sure seems to come up often on many cars. When looking to buy a 355, of the 2 cars I ppi'd, both had valve issues. A friend of mine insist that any pre 98.5 car will eventually have valve-guide issues. figure about $6k, and once repaired properly, I'd consider it a plus...because now it won't happen. Accordingly I'd not penalize a repaired car at all.... These cars are expensive, but the general consensus is that they are incredibly well worth it. Nuff said...
Are you really not aware of the various different problems that cause cylinder pressure loss that are NOT valve related??
I don't see a reason for the arrogant and smug attitude as it was only a question and I don't pretend to be an encyclopedia on the internal combustion engine like some others here. I also doubt you know anything about the topic as well because posting a link would have been sufficient and would not have taken the tread on a tangent nor taken too much space and time. BTW I have done a net search on this various times any only found vague references from no credible sources.
Burned valves are a very well known and understood problem that as I said has been around since internal combustion engines and poppet valves. Your pronouncement of it as mythology is so far off base it is in leaque with thinking Elvis was abducted by aliens. If you really came to this discussion with enlightenment in mind I would expect a different approach. If you had I might have taken the time to explain. Add to that your blank profile and your argumentative nature in almost every other thread you have posted in you add nothing here, go away.
Yes I'm very much awear of the various different problems that cause cylinder pressure loss..And a burnt valve is one of them. Just ask Tjacoby on this site about this..and those pictures I posted above are from a 348 with a burned intake valve..cause by in large to a bad valve guide, which was damaged due to the timing belt snapping in the past and the repair job not done correctly. Many car campanies have spent a great deal of money trying to figure out away for this not to happen. Valve rotators, different metals, sodium filled valves, different valve seat materials, valves seal materials, valvetrain angles etc. They have pretty much succeeded as burned valves in everyday cars are fairly uncommon. But it was a fairly common occurance with older engines, using old technology.
I am no Ferrari expert, but wouldn't worry too much about it. Drive the car for yourself and you should know if the engine is OK. If the previous owner has trashed the engine, you will be able to feel it. You might find that his driving style led to the problem - maybe he had a tendancy to double-de-clutch downshift from third to second, at high speeds, causing high cylinder temperatures due to the lean mixture - this could cause such a problem I think. Any other thoughts about what would cause such a failure?
He PM'd me to answer my question about a history of exhaust manifold failure which it has had. I would be reasonably sure they are connected, it fits the pattern.
Run Tom Run....It's a ...It's a TROLL. AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
