355 - 355 B and GTS Stick getting really hard to find | Page 7 | FerrariChat

355 355 B and GTS Stick getting really hard to find

Discussion in '348/355' started by Robb, Aug 28, 2019.

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  1. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    Had to pull up an old thread. Contact CHE Precision. They make manganese guides. They will recommend you a builder. That builder also quoted me $3k and that's for the works. I just don't remember the company name.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/bronze-manganese-valve-guides.473354/


    This also reminds me. The factory sintered steel "upgraded" guides (supposedly on 98-99 cars) do not have the "bump" flange on them, which helps prevent them from slipping or "walking." Educate yourselves gentlemen. Don't believe the hype!
     
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  2. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

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    Valve guides were corrected in 98 at a specific VIN cut off. And, before I hear “nothing is for sure with Ferrari”, the changeover was well documented at the time. But, for the obsessive skeptics out there, rest assured the guides were corrected well before the 99 model year. Or, you can always believe the stories of the illusive box of leftover bad guides that the evil Ferrari workers snuck in because they were laying around and it was Friday, the day before the August shut down, etc.
     
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  3. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    That's fine. That doesn't change the fact the factory sintered steel guides do not have a bump design in them.
     
  4. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

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    An excellent cared for car, low miles or high, is an excellent cared for car. That said, I’ll take a Low miles, superbly maintained and conditioned car over a high miles one any day.
     
  5. Robb

    Robb Moderator
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    Bottom line is... there aren’t that many stick B’s or GTS in ANY mileage or condition currently available in the US.

    So buyers will either have to pay more to get a car, get creative in their searches, or go a different direction.

    Robb
     
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  6. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    Ken, I respectfully disagree. I had the guides done in my 95 as part of the purchase. It was just supposed to be a major, done by a respected indy shop, not the seller. When the car went in was determined that it needed a valve job and guides. Parts alone were in the $5k range (required new vales and guides, and about 1/3 of the lifter were rebuilt.). I didn't actually pay that because I told the seller (a dealer) that it would take me over budget and he agreed to pick up 50%. Take out the new valves and you get close to $3k, but then you have to add in prepping the old valves. So even with old valves it would have been around $3k in parts plus labor for the machine shop and to R&R the top end.

    But I agree. The most serious problem I've had with my 95 in 7 years was a failed MAF. Other than that a broken wire and a couple of CELs due to O2 bad O2 sensors. 95s rock.
     
  7. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    I'll take a Nakamura-level maintained sub 50k car over a low mile car that isn't maintained well. Every sub 10k mile car does not mean it was maintained well (as evident in the thread linked). The common denominator here is level of maintenance/restoration. Not low miles.
     
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  8. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    It all depends on what valve guides the shop chose. Some are expensive as hell, some are not. I think sintered steel is $50 a piece. Manganese... maybe $15?

    All one needs to do is call Fast Cars for a quote. But keep in mind this quote is already assuming you're doing the engine out service at the same time.
     
  9. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    I like “pay more”


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  10. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    #160 johnk..., Sep 26, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019

    But Robb, no one is buying the ones that are on the market. Those looking obviously are interested in them for one reason or another: price, quality, color, something. Apparently they don't want "THAT' car. And the F1s are not selling either. Neither are the spiders. And relatively speaking there aren't that many of them for sale either. There just isn't a good enough market to attract sellers. Only 32 cars, spiders, GTS and Bs on cars dot com. That's historically down about 30% to 40% from when the market was hot. It will take another boom cycle to bring out sellers.
     
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  11. Robb

    Robb Moderator
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    Boom baby Boom

    Robb
     
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  12. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    But you still need the labor to R&R the top end. That's got to be at least $1k. I mean you have to remove the intakes, exhaust, remove the heads and disassemble, reassemble, plus all the gaskets, etc. If that is what they are charging on top of a basic major, it's a steal.
     
  13. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    5 years out, at least. Bookmark this post. :)
     
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  14. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    I sold my F1 last week for a very slight loss. But rolled the money into things and other cars that I see more upside in sooner than later. I am flabbergasted that my 1 of 529 GTS F1’s is so under appreciated and valued. I will probably regret it if I see them pop of $30k and it should ??? I mean 529 in the world!?!!


    But I have found a car that I think is hotter, way more upside, more rare (way more rare for total production) and way faster. And I ain’t saying what - not called CARNUTDALLAS for nothing :)

    I will more than likely keep the GTB. I have it set up that way and unless it gets close to my ask, it will be around. I plan on driving the next 10-12 months at least a 1000 miles if not more, so I will devalue it I suppose?


    ** 10 edits cause iPhone thinks it is smarter than me for auto fill words. Ughhh

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  15. johnk...

    johnk... F1 World Champ
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    I like it better when you said "I planed on drinking the next 10-12 months." :)
     
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  16. ShineKen

    ShineKen F1 World Champ
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    The quote I received was a few years ago. I'd say $3500 max today with manganese guides.

    Fast cars does not do the work in-house. They send it out. Removing and re-installing the head they have no problem including in the engine out service quote. It's not too difficult to do when the engine is already out. They also warranty the work of their source.

    Reputable performance Honda 4 cylinder head builders charge roughly $1500-1800 if you take a head to them. If it cost $5k to build a head (4 cylinder) all the Honda kids would be rioting.

    If I recall correctly, for the quote I received, I would say parts was about $1200. The rest was labor. Manganese guides are anywhere between $10-15 each.
     
  17. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Veteran
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    I am unclear, so the rest who buy the bulk of the cars out there are what... not smart? I am not certain that's true.

    I think you mean "the most discerning" buyers want...


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  18. Culprit

    Culprit Formula Junior
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    No I don't think so. I don't see many people looking to add an F355 to their museum. Most buyers seem to be keyboard warriors fancying themselves in a Ferrari but are not willing to lay down the money for a decent example. Well these cars are getting to be 25 years old and most of them have fallen into the hands of guys who really appreciate them.

    So yeah it's tough to the find the perfect one. Several people here mentioned looking for their dream car 1-2 years. These cars are worth the time/money/research. And to those buyers who give up after not finding their dream car for $40K on an eBay search, well maybe the F355 isn't the car for them.

    A little bit of the Ferrari magic lies in the fact that they can't be easily obtained, and it requires dedication, effort, resources and a bit of madness to own one.
     
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  19. johnk...

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    It is what is. I still think $3k including al the labor to R&R is a steal. But I really can't complain. Due to all the wheeling and dealing my car ended up costing me $1600 over what was originally agreed to before it was found to need the head work. So I guess I got the heads done for $1600. Deal of the century.
     
  20. carnutdallas

    carnutdallas Formula 3
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    Excellent!


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  21. Robb

    Robb Moderator
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    Good quotes for sure.

    It took me quite a while to find the forever car(s) for my garage... but I didn’t just sit on the fence in the meantime. I had other Ferrari’s to enjoy along the way. And I learned what was critically special about the cars. Kept my eyes open and contacting other owners...

    Some buyers will even pick up a car and ship it to Bradan to get it back into perfect condition. Perfect one’s just aren’t out there very often. There aren’t even that many crappy ones out there currently... :D but I understand not everyone can put up with restoration time and cost.

    It’s a good kind of madness with fringe benefits I think.

    Robb

     
  22. ttforcefed

    ttforcefed F1 World Champ
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    mine took 2 years to find, but that was back in 2002!
     
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  23. eyeman1234

    eyeman1234 Formula 3
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    #173 eyeman1234, Sep 26, 2019
    Last edited: Sep 26, 2019
    "If you think it's expensive to hire a professional just wait until you hire an amateur"

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    And IMO as far as values of gated 355's it seems 50% - 100% more $ for concours quality now
     
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  24. Challenge

    Challenge Formula 3

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    I heard a good one the other day: Few have time to do it right, but everyone has time to do it over.
     
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  25. Rossocorsa1

    Rossocorsa1 F1 Veteran

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    Regarding the never ending valve guide controversy, I have made some interesting observations over the past few years. Certainly not a scientific analysis, but I have clearly noticed that the vast majority of cars that come up for sale have never had their guides changed, and shockingly they are still running. Another thing I’ve noticed is some, not all, but some, independent shops have made a cottage industry out of freaking owners out about guides. I’m not going to name the shop, but there is one in particular that is constantly convincing owners to rebuild their engines (not just 355’s), change valve guides, etc. They are also always pushing the very expensive option. Whenever I stop in that shop, look at their Facebook page, etc., they always have 2-3 cars with their engines out. Now, of course, there are occasions (rare) that cars need major engine work done, but, again, some shops make it a point to use scare tactics. Now, is the valve guides issues valid? I’m sure there are cases where changing them is warranted, and I’m sure some have a certain peace of mind after it’s done. I admit, I only considered a very late production car in my search because I didn’t want to deal with the issue, particularly when the day comes that I may sell my car. Still, there’s no doubt in my mind that a certain level of hysteria has been created by fear mongers. I have little doubt that the vast majority of 355’s with original guides, when maintained properly, will live long and very efficient lives.
     
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