Searching older threads has helped, but could use a bit more.... Car is 1997 5.2 with new oem headers, Fabspeed CAT bypass, Nouvalari sport exhaust, and rear O2 BigDaddies extension. Aware that 0422 and 0432 refer to CAT inefficiency for bank 1 and bank 2, but since I don't have CATs, I am assuming this is actually O2 related. 0153 (bank 2 sensor 1 O2) points me more in that direction????? Along with 1121 which appears to be O2 heating element? (FWIW: 0153 and 1121 are pending on my scanner) My scanner allows me to get live data for O2 sensors, but I don't know how to interpret? Can't find values in the WSM: does anyone know the proper values to evaluate? Is sensor 1 pre cat and sensor 2 is post cat? Can issues with thermocouplers throw a CEL, but no SDL? Should I assume that the BigDaddies extensions will not hide a truly faulty O2 sensor?
I'd suspect for the 0422/0432 is simply the bigdaddies are not doing what they are supposed to be doing. Maybe add an extension to them? For the 0153 it does sound like the pre catalyst O2 sensor on bank 2 (left side) is on the way out. Bosch 13819 is the correct part number.
hmmm well that's a bummer.....I bought the straight units with the internal mini cats. I thought I read that adding the 45' angled spacers in tandem with the straight ones might solve the problem?? (not sure if i read that or dreamt it?) Is it still possible that both of the downstream O2 have failed? (a bit too much coincidence?) I have a set of Technistrada dummy bypass load units that I never installed: Since 0422/0432 are CAT inefficiency, could installing these help with CEL, or is there no relationship?
If the spacers are not helping, shouldn't I have thrown codes 0139 and 0159 which are for post CAT O2 sensors? Seems strange that what I have is for CATs??
Many of us have been down this road before, so we pretty much all speak with conviction. Your cat inefficiency codes are the results of the spacers not really spacing out enough. Solutions are 1) get new ones, 2) get longer ones, 3) get right angle ones, 4) stuff it with steel wool, 5) get mini-cats. Ignore the pending codes. They are not yet problems.
For reference should the pending ones become hard faults: 1121: Left bank post-cat sensor heater (note: pending). I believe faulty heaters can contribute to slow response messages. 0422 is both banks, but I don't see the point of identifying one and both. The decoding table is from the 360 WSM, and there are differences in the exhaust system if I recall correctly. Check the wiring on the O2 sensors. Look for voltage on the heater wires. Note that the engine will have to be running for this (power comes via the fuel pump relay and the pump doesn't operate until the engine starts turning). If both banks are affected, check the fuse (footwell fuse #22). Not sure. Is your SDL light working? There are two thermocouple-related codes and these cover out of normal range temperatures (not necessarily overheats). I would fit the Technistrada dummy ECUs (even if only strapped in loosely for faultfinding). These units eliminate faulty thermocouples and thermocouple ECUs. Correct. To work properly, you will still need a perfectly good O2 sensor.
Ok....starting to get a grasp on this "common" problem. I am going to add the bigdaddies angled spacer to my mini cat spacer...agreed??? and Ian, I will install the bypass units to my thermo ECUs. BTW: my SDL works fine. A few months ago I has some SDL issues, but these were resolved by correcting some wires. Found another related post that spoke of problems after disconnecting the battery with these specific codes. This AM, before driving and the CEL, I was working on my horn button so I used my battery shut off control. Possible relation or old wives tale....??
Perhaps the experts can tell us what the spacers actually do? How does putting the sensor and mini cat material further away from the cats or in a lower gas flow area help?
Mitch, Big Daddies are supposed to be one of the best out there (using real cat material, not steel wool).
Probably not. The problem you are having is most likely due to the fact that, with the cats removed, the post-cat sensors produce a fluctuating voltage because they are exposed to more oxygen. The ECU expects that the voltage fluctuation from the post-cat sensors is very small as, with the cats in place, these sensors get very little oxygen because it is absorbed/stored by the cats resulting in fairly steady voltage output from the post-cat sensors. I am not familiar with the Big Daddies but it seems to me that, in order to fool the post-cat sensors (and the ECU), the post-cat sensors need to be placed in a way which will prevent oxygen in the exhaust gasses from reaching them but where they will be kept hot enough. Perhaps the angled Big Daddies achieve that.
Still learning how to use my scanner and wish I could snap a finger and comprehend all the info available. Some free time today allows me to play a bit and just recorded some data; maybe someone can chime in on what it all means: B1S2: .190-.745 @ idle .125-.850 blipping the throttle B1S2: .028-.097 @idle .010-.865 blipping the throttle B2S1: .110-.800 @idle ,095-.855 blipping the throttle B2S2: .153-.407 @idle .255-.715 blipping the throttle also, when starting the scanner, it showed 1121 pending which I believe is for B2S2 whose values are different from B1S2..... Big Daddies offers a few different spacers. The ones I bought are the straight ones with internal honey comb platinum inserts. The angled spacers do not have the internal mini cats. Wondering if it might be a good idea to ADD the angled ones on top of the straight ones? Maybe the above readings will offer better information
^^^great video.....my assessment is that my B1S2 is out of spec because it is too lean at idle??? or is something else at fault?
another clue??? my pending 1121 code is with the car only at idle. I have not pulled it out of the garage.....does this support my thoughts of lean reading at B1S2? Wondering if that lean reading is accurate and the O2 is doing its job, or a false reading by the O2?
According to the Ferrari 360 chart, 1121 should be related to B2S2. Having said that, after revisiting the wiring diagrams, the 5.2 ECU doesn't seem to have the potential for identifying individual heater problems, only heater pairs. i.e. because of the way the heaters are wired up, the ECU can only, at best, monitor (and control) the current going through the aft pair or the front pair of O2 heaters. With this in mind, 1121 could point to either aft heater (B1S2 and B2S2). Can you identify the plugs for the aft sensors on both banks and compare the resistances of the heaters?
The heater wires should be the (diagonally opposite) white wires on standard O2 sensors. On the other half of the rear sensor plugs, they should be the larger brown-black and violet wires. Colour variations are possible (I think some older ECU harnesses have green wires on those 4 pin plugs, but I can't remember if these are heater wires)
ah...correct, my mistake. but also correct that the 5.2 measures both values, so could be either side. Since this code was thrown with the car idling in the garage, I would suspect it is part of the heating circuitry. (to be clear, this code was pending) will do first thing tomorrow and report....... moving on with no intention to muddy the waters, but wondering if I have a lean condition as well and wonder if someone can report on what values should present for STFT and LTFT @ idle? and, are there other items I should check using live data on my scanner?
It must be assumed that all 360 codes relating to heaters on the 5.2 are wrong. 1112 may actually mean "single heater of O2 sensor pair inoperative" on the 5.2. 1117 may appear if both heaters in a pair are inoperative (either together with 1112 or by itself). The 2.7 car is wired differently and may be able to sense individual heater problems (I'm really not sure).
is it possible to have a pending code never result in an actual thrown code? or is it always a question of time, and ALL pending codes will eventually result in an actual code?
A fault condition has to happen several times before the computer can declare that it is a real condition and not a passing fluke. A pending code has no bearing on your performance until it becomes a real code. Most times, pending codes simply never repeat and go away.
Measure the resistance of the O2 heaters, resistance between the two white wires. Should be 10-20 ohms. If it's infinity the heater is bad. Do it and be done with it.
The parameters for real faults may vary. It may depend on time or the number of times the engine goes through a heat-up cycle. Are you clearing your codes after every code reading? Perhaps you are not allowing the code to become real? I did read somewhere that no heat will result in no voltage output from the O2 sensor itself. I guess, however as the engine heats up the sensor element, you will eventually get a readout. Were all your readings taken with the exhaust system warmed up? Would a partially warm sensor result in a lean reading?
