350 Can Am 0858

Putting on 412 bodywork and fitting a proper 412P engine would decrease the value even further........

 

#0858 with Mike Parkes at Le Mans 1967.
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So needs to be stripped and the motor likely needs to be rebuilt? Nothing like asking full price for something that is just the starting point for a full restoration.

 

a bit like wilt when he came entered pro basketball...

 

Just out of curiousity, how many cars were actually documented as "350 Can-Am" by the factory when new????

Bob Z.

Not having sex with your girlfriend is like not putting miles on your Ferrari - so it'll be more desireable for the next owner to drive!

 

sounds like 2 cars for the price of 1

what was the chassis modified to bring it from a P4 to a can-am? what were the mechanical changes?

 

This is of course true, but you probably know better than most of us what the cost of such a restoration would be; isn't the cost reasonably insignificant in comparison to the cars' value? (Not to say that the restoration cost would be an insignificant sum!)

 

More photos from a recent visit to Galleria Ferrari by T.O.MATRIX on TCL.

>8^)
ER
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Maybe Classiche would be willing to bring it back to P4?

 

Hello Jim,
I do not think the chassis was too much modified for the P4 to 350 Can Am conversion or if it was it was minor. Both had the same wheelbase. I think they called the P4 Type 603 and the Can Am Type 603C? I'm sure you would know. They might have added a safety arc or a few more tubes here or there. Am I wrong? I am curious if you are aware of major changes and what they might be. I know they did away with the spare tire area as they shortened the bodywork behind the rear wheel. I like the overall shape.

I think a proper resto back to a fully safe and operational 350 Can Am in its current colors and numbers would be the best tribute to 0858.

 

The point is not wether it could be made to look like P4 0858 or not, or wether the changes to the chassis were very significant or not: the factory used P4 0858 to create 350 Can Am 0858, at which point the P4 seized to exist. Given that the factory gave it a new type designation to me would suggest that it is not an evolution, but rather that the P4 served as the parts-donor for the Can Am.
IMO Classiche is right by pre-empting someone changing it back to P4 spec when it states that no certification can be awarded. They are then doing what they are supposed to, preserving the Marque's history.

Jim, your estimate of a proper restoration of 0858 is quite a bit higher than what I had in my mind, but then, I never touched a nut on any of these fabulous P-series or Can Am cars. When I gestimated that the restoration costs may be insignificant to the car's value, I thought them to be in the range of 5-8%, going on a value as per auction results. I realise that such a project could spin out of control/exceed budget very quickly once you need major ingredients. Thank you for your frankness regarding this.

 

I guess I don't really see the problem... perhaps I just don't understand the full extent of the modifications that would be necessary to return the car to original form...

If the wheelbase, suspension geometry, are the same and the chassis isn't extensively modified by excessive bracing etc... and it really is just a couple of minor crossbars to help mount a new body etc... I don't see the problem in removing pieces that are essentially mounting points... It doesn't affect the integrity of the car and is true to original form. There have been cars with heavily damaged chassis that have been repaired or straightened... I dont see how a chassis that hasn't seen severe crash damage but had some mounting points removed could be worth significantly less than a car that suffered actual frame damaged that altered geometry...

I also don't see the problem with resleeving an engine, as it is common practice... if the block and heads are the original castings... i say go for it... many many many motors get resleeved especially when fitting new pistons. Id say this occurs far more often than many think and Id be willing to be there are some big dollar big name cars that have had this done...

As far as the body... I would think the term "replica" body is a little harsh... many ferraris including testrossas GTOs, and many other fabulous race cars have been "rebodied" due to damage and or corrosion. And some cars raced as both coupe and convertible forms, some people have the original convertible body but "sourced" a new body.

I dunno... maybe I have the whole thing wrong

 

Gotcha, I started to think of that aspect as I finished my post and laid in bed. Its funny how Classiche has really made a muck of things. Sometimes they are two generous with there certifications and sometimes they could be viewed as possibly too strickt... Politics... I fear.

I agree with you that no matter what an original P4 would be worth more than a 350/P4. Undoubtedly.

 

Whats kind of funny about Classiche is they may not have the best resources either. They were doing a cert. on a 1950's Ferrari racecar a few months ago and could not confirm that the car had an original engine cover scoop when new. I looked the car up in several books and found pictures when the car was new with the hood scoop. The engine cover also would not fit without the scoop. Makes you wonder how accurate these factory guys are in some areas like bodywork!

Tom Tanner/Scale Designs/Ferrari Expo 2011-Chicago April 2011

 

They do have a pretty decent stash of original blueprints/paperwork.

 

Im sure as far as mechanical parts they are very good. Bodywork is the problem as they changed/modified parts without sometimes writing it down. Pictures are the only proof left.

 

They have log books, too. Maybe the original 0858 plans are handy ...?

Which iteration of this chassis had the most notable history?