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348/355 & Service Costs

Discussion in '348/355' started by ibesuc, Sep 8, 2017.

  1. thorn

    thorn F1 Rookie
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    Aug 7, 2012
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    #26 thorn, Sep 10, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 10, 2017
    Ace, with respect - that's such utter elitist BS. If cost isn't a consideration, you're either so wealthy that you won't notice the cost, or a complete budgetary fool.

    Cost should be a consideration whether you're buying a Ferrari, or any other high-end sports car. Or a house. Or a boat. The costs are always over the initial purchase, and one should absolutely factor that into making a sensible financial decision. Over time, it's a heck of a lot more expensive to own a helicopter than it was to purchase one. Know that before you write the check.

    If you can afford 355 (or any OTHER Ferrari) maintenance costs - then by all means, buy one and enjoy the car. But you should know how deep the water can get before you jump.
     
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  3. bcb70

    bcb70 Karting

    Mar 30, 2013
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    If you want a Ferrari then buy a Ferrari. Just do your research first. Without getting to personal I will tell you I am a middle class/upper middle class income. I say this because If you do your research and plan ahead you can afford to own a Ferrari and the maintenance. I love Ferrari and have always wanted one. I did my reasearch, a lot of research and decided on a F355spider. I knew what to look for and what the maintenance would be. Find a well sorted 355 with service records and find a reputable mechanic. Ive attached one of my previous post about the 355.

    https://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/threads/my-new-355-spider.427280/

    Good luck and don't get discouraged.
     
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  4. SoCal1

    SoCal1 F1 Veteran
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    Costs about $100 a month in maintenance so budget that as a min. Thats if nothing breaks

    :)
     
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  5. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    That's more like the monthly fuel cost. :eek:
     
  6. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    430
    Pepsi Generation

    "feel the charm", you are implying the 355 handling and performance. I haven't driven the other models so I can't say hands on but let's look at it mathematically and of course my opinion. :).


    The 430 has about 100 horses more but it has a bigger mass(space it occupies) and roughly 350 pounds(gravitational down force) heavier. Engines power is rated at max output. It doesn't matter if the car sits still or moving 100mph, the horse/torque remain the same. A car mass and weight however vary depending on speed of acceleration. The faster it moves, the greater the force exponentially acting against the car movement. At lower speed a 430 likely out accelerate a 355. At higher speed and sharp cornering, a 355 will out perform the bigger 430. It's a mathematical fact. At what speed or how sharp and frequent the corner it happens, I don't know. I just know the 355 is a better platform overall. I can't say enough, throw an additional 100 horses in, we wouldn't be making this comparison. I even doubt the 458/488 would rein the track they do now.


    I had a few models; 360 430,458 in mind prior to picking up my first Ferrari. I made the mistake of looking at the 355 Spyder first. The second the cover comes off, I told the guy I'll come back with a check. What's a PPI? I did look at the other models. The extra horses did nothing against the 355 spyder beauty. So to answer your question, yes, beauty alone is worth the cost.


    You inquire about the cost says you are aware of it to some degree. If you consider a 355 knowing to some degree the cost of ownership says the beauty and sound of the 355 appeal to you. Buying a car at this pedigree, it has to appeal to you. Never buy into hype. It's like marrying the wrong woman. Oops, I did it again. Mods, can I say that on here being it's a family forum?
     
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  8. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    Feb 18, 2008
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    For a 355 Once its sorted and pristine likely 2 grand a year if you do your own services and want to keep it pristine.
    I have had mine a long time it its worked out about that.. 3 to 4 grand if having someone else service it.


    This gets asked so much i can not remember what I said before.
     
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  9. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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  10. yelcab

    yelcab F1 World Champ
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    How did we go from "service costs" to "speed of light?"
     
  11. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    Not really sure what to say about the above other than I disagree with most of it.
     
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  13. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I dont think any well sorted 355 will out perform a well sorted 430 through, corners. Just based on the design of the 430.

    This is just based on chassis, tires, and suspention only.

    When driving, the 430 will seem slower even though your going faster. Bigger car, different seating position. Many diferent reasons.
     
  14. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Last summer FCA had a driving event at Lime Rock. They staged a race for 355, 360 and 430 challenge cars in attendance. All on the track at the same time. The fastest 355 could just barely keep up with the slowest 360, until it's tired were shot, and then it fell back pretty quickly. Not close let alone any of the 430s. And that 355 was quite a bit quicker than the rest of the 355 heard.
     
  15. AceMaster

    AceMaster Three Time F1 World Champ

    Feb 6, 2009
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    You've been around here long enough to know why ;)
     
  16. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    430
    Pepsi Generation

    LoL John, do you believe everything you read on the internet? I bet the first girl off the Internet you wanted to hook up with was a blonde hair with the carpet to match, blue eyes, cook, clean, mow the lawn, make $150k a year and willing to try anything once. I bet you believed everything in her profile huh? Ummm ok bad example. There was no internet back then. Anyways, here's something real to think about.


    Suppose you've been super sizing your happy meal for the last few months. You look at yourself in the mirror one morning and realize you're not the stud you once was. Back then girls ran to you. Now they run away from you. Well, your body took the path of least resistance. Since then a few spare tires, too many miles on the OD and rusting on the wheels. So you decide to get back to your playing weight by walking 5 miles a day, a week. After a month you see an improvement. One spare tire gone. The wheels are getting shinier and girls aren't afraid of you. Some even smile when you walk by. Encourage by the positive feedback, you decide to up the anti by running 5 miles a day, a week instead of walking. After many months, you are back to your old you which is the better you. Now everywhere you go all the girls know your name and they always glad you "came". So the question for you John, the distance and frequency are the same but yet you are fitter walking as suppose to being a coach potato and even fitter yet running as suppose to walking. Oh don't go searching the Internet you won't find the answer. The answer is not rocket science. It's just old Physics. Running exerts more energy than walking. Technically speaking, you are doing more work in a shorter among of time thus require more energy. I know this is not an Aerobic Chat Forum so let's talk about cars.


    Physics doesn't know if you're running, crawling or a car accelerating 10 meters a second. The faster a body wants to be in motion, the more energy it requires to overcome the elements impeding the motion and there two to consider. Factor one is gravity. The weight of a car. We know the 430 is roughly 350 pounds heavier than the 355. We know the 430 is about 100 horses more. We know also engines horse power is rated at maximum output. It doesn't increase as the car go faster and faster but the weight of the car does in the form of force acting against the car motion. Base on this we can conclude at specific speed, the 350 pounds generate so much counter force that the extra 100 horses is not a trade off for the extra 350 pounds. Factor two is mass. Anything with mass takes up space. We know the 430 is much bigger than the 355. To find exactly how much bigger, we need to commandeer a large swimming pool, a donor 355 and a 430. Seal them up and place inside the pool. The amount of water they displace is the mass of each car. Why is this important? A car moving has to force air to the sides. At speed it translates into thousands foot pound of force. Ever had your hand "accidentally outside a car moving 65mph? Remember your hand is quite small compare to a car. Something else to consider. The amount of space objects take up doesn't always yield the same amount of counter force while in motion. The shape of objects matter. In the case of the 355, the tail end is porous providing better air flow.


    I can not give concrete numbers. I don't have a large swimming pool, two donor cars or a category 10 hurricane wind tunnel to experiment. Think about it is all I'm saying. If you don't believe me try running 5 miles a week. Caution, the girls that didn't give a time of day will want to friend you on Facebook.
     
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  17. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    430
    Pepsi Generation
    OP, yes the cost is worth it.
     
  18. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Complete BS, Roth. You are confusing the forces acting on a car to maintain constant velocity in a straight line with the force required to impose a give acceleration to it. Certainly the forces due to drag and friction must be countered by the torque generated by the motor and applied to the tires to the ground. But it makes no difference is the car is moving at 10 mph or 100 mph, in a vacuum or at the bottom of the ocean, the force required to impose a finite acceleration to a body of mass m is the same. It is a smiple statement of Newton's law, F = ma. Like I said, unless the car is moving at a fraction of the speed of light, this equation applies and the mass is constant. When the car is moving at constant velocity in a straight line, the acceleration is zero and the sum of all the forces, drag, friction, engine torque, are zero. So we have Fa +(Ft - Fd -Ff) = ma where the forces in the ( ) are the forces required to keep the car at its constant velocity and their sum is zero, where as Fa is the additional force (also generated by the engine) which accelerates the car. So, to impose an acceleration, any acceleration, to a car of mass m requires that an additional force of Fa, generated by the engine, is applied to the car regardless of the velocity of the car. Where you logic is flawed is that while you recognize that as the velocity of the car increases due to the acceleration, the forces Fd and Ff increase since friction and drag are dependent on velocity. But in your first post you were implying that this somehow meant the mass and weight were increasing with velocity. At least, that is what you said.

    As a result, the force supplied by the engine needed to bring the sum of the forces in the ( ) to zero increases. But the fraction of the force generated by the engine to maintain a given acceleration remains Fa. The mass of the car doesn't change with speed.

    Now your comment about a car in swimming poor is really irrelevant. The mass of the volume of water displaced by the car in a pool is only equal to the mass of the car if the car floats. But that has no bearing on anything here.

    Weight of anything is just the force due to gravitation attraction of two bodies if given masses, known as Newton's law of gravity. F = mM/r^2. For a car on earth, m = the mass of the car, M = the mass of the earth, and r is the radius of the earth.

    So, in summary, due to friction and drag, the force applied by the engine, or work done by the engine to maintain a given speed increases with speed. The force applied by the engine to impose a given acceleration to the car is not a function of the speed of the car. And lastly, the mass of anything is constant unless the velocity of the object is moving at a significant fraction of the speed of light.
     
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  19. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    430 isn't 350lbs heavier than a 355 and it's over 100hp more. You think it is not a faster car? Weight changes with speed and water displacement is mass? Exterior dimensions more important than drag coefficient? Not sure what people are smoking out there in Torrance but I think you might consider a little less! :D
     
  20. ibesuc

    ibesuc Formula Junior

    Jun 16, 2009
    478
    NY
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    Steve
    Lol... this is spiraling out of control and it reeks of trolling.

    The 360 and especially 430 will blow away the 355...in handling and acceleration. They're from a totally different generation of technology and performance-wise each car was chronologically improved in every category. Determining which car is faster cannot be done by typing out physics. Drive them and you will see, the 355 is a special car - not because of its speed around a track.

    Case closed. Ban Roth.
     
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  21. Roth

    Roth Formula Junior

    Apr 1, 2016
    430
    Pepsi Generation
    In car talk, horse power and toque are the subject. What's missing in the conversation, weight and "mass". More horse power doesn't always translate into better performance across the board if the car packs on significantly more weight. It's a give and take between low and high end range. And the birth of high performance cars doesn't start on the track. It starts on paper and chalk board. Then test on the track.


    John

    The Internet is a modern marvel. You can search for answers on just about anything. Who did what last summer. Who shot JR. The rascals, where are they now. But the one subject the internet can not answer successfully is math because it involves a series of pending problems and or symbols. John, you think I'm confuse. You comment leads me to believe, without offending you, math is not your subject of interest then or now. I say this because you posted a link to a mathematical theory to validate your assumption. A person with a math background would post the problem along with the answer instead. Note, I did not post a sample equation to backup my claim for a reason.


    IMB

    I am not saying the 355 out performs the 430.. I am saying although the 430 has more horses, it packs more weight. My claim is the 430 doesn't out perform the 355 across the board. Somewhere the line becomes blurry and cross.


    OP

    If you know the car you want, get it. You post a question in a public forum. Logic should tell you someone and anyone on the forum may reply. For your inquiry, any comments can only be neutral or positive. Your failure to comprehend a mathematical explanation doesn't mean they are not useful. I could post a bunch of equations but I highly doubt you understand. And the answer is still YES, the cost is worth it.
     
  22. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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    Roth, you are right. It's surprising what you can find on the internet.

    http://downloads.hindawi.com/journals/vlsi/1995/097025.pdf

    http://sirad.pd.infn.it/~candelor/Parte2A/TNS1984_Funneling_OKPERCORSO.pdf

    https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19810008457.pdf

    https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740013816.pdf

    https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19740020645.pdf

    More?
     
  23. INTMD8

    INTMD8 F1 Veteran
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    There is no blurry line. 430 outperforms 355. While weight is a factor and never "missing" from the discussion, the 430 of similar spec to 355 is probably within 100lbs weight difference.

    Either way, a hundred pounds or three hundred pounds isn't the end all determining factor in performance.

    A Toyota Corolla weighs less than a 355 so by that metric only it is at some times a better performer?

    You're posting nonsense.
     
  24. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I believe, but have no proof that a 355 with 100 hp more likely would still not beat a 430 just because of chassis and suspension. This is based on my racing experience.

    Like James said its a balance and I believe Ferrari and all sports car manufacturers continually develope both because they also know this.
     
  25. taz355

    taz355 F1 Veteran
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    I know he did not say it but likely he meant if costs are the most important.
     
  26. CliffBeer

    CliffBeer Formula 3

    Apr 3, 2005
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    So what exactly is the cost of a belt service on a 348/355?

    And, what exactly is the cost of a belt service on a 360/430?

    Thanks
     
  27. Ferrarium

    Ferrarium F1 Rookie
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    Just the belt and only the belt? It's essentially the same minus the engine removal charge. About 2k with variability.

    Sent using FerrariChat.com mobile app
     
  28. johnk...

    johnk... F1 Veteran
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    Jun 11, 2004
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