328 Water Pump Removal | FerrariChat

328 Water Pump Removal

Discussion in 'Technical Q&A' started by RussF, Jun 3, 2005.

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  1. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    This started as a 328 Oil Leak Thread but I since discovered that it is a coolant leak and I am replacing the water pump. Past threads have been very helpful on fine details but I could use some help on the major points such as what I believe are the following steps on which I would appreciate comments.

    1. Do I remove the hoses going to the thermostat/or the WP from above as a first step.

    2. Do I need to drain the coolant before unbolting the WP? Or can I just let the coolant fun out around the WP as I loosen it.

    3. What about the aluminum pipe that is right in from of the WP? Loosen it from the top or bottom?

    4. Believe that I should repalce the drive belt. Is that a ferrari only part or is it available from an aftermarket supplier like NAPA?

    5. Haven't made up my mind if I want a kit or rebuild. If a rebuild any thoughts on the Durable 1 rebuild from Kermit?

    As usual help from this site is always appreciated.
     
  2. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,228
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    For what it's worth; I had to R&R the waterpump on my 308 the week after I bought it 8 years ago. I can't help you with the details because I really don't remember much about doing it but I can tell you it was no big deal. I think the fact that I don't remember is pretty good proof that you should have no real problems doing it yourself. Good luck.
     
  3. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,827
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom
    Drain the coolant from the block from the valve which is located in between exhaust ports #1 and #2 on the engine block (towards the rear of the car closer to the right side of the engine..access through right wheel well)

    Remove the water pump belt. These belts can be gotten form a local source but may have to be ordered speacial

    Losen the two large hoses that go to the rear of the water pump. Access the clamps is a bit tricky. The lower hose of the 2 that go to rear of the pump is also attached to a metal pipe at the other end. This pipe is secured by a clamp which is bolted down by one of the intake nuts. Losen this nut just enough so the pipe can move freely. This will help later with the install.

    Losen the small hose that goes to the top of the t-state housing (the one attached to the metal pipe) and pull it off the housing.

    Using a 13mm socket and a 13mm open end wrench remove the 4 bolts which secure the pump assembly to the block. You do not need to remove the timing covers. Pull the pump towords you. Once there is a gap between the pump assembly and the block, wiggle it free from the rear hoses. There will be an o-ring which seals the pump to the block. Repalce this o-ring when reinstalling.

    Now you must seperate the pump from the rear housing. Undo the 10mm nuts and remove the washers. Tap the assembly with a plastic hammer around the circumferance where the two peices joint together. This will take some time. You may have to pry a bit, but be careful not to crack anything. Try and remove the pump as square as you can to its rear section.

    Try not to have to much coolant spill on the timing belts. You will get some on there, but flush it away with water quickly.

    Once the new pump is installed you are now ready to add coolant and bleed the system.

    With the engine off, open the bleeder which sits on top of the t-stat housing (the same housing you removed the upper hose from) this will be a brass colored "bolt" with a copper washer underneith. You do not need to remove all the way..but I like to see the flow rather then a trickle.

    Now go to the front to the car under the hood. On the right side of the rad at the top corner you will find a thumb screw looking thing. Loosen it off. This is the air bleed for the rad.

    Start adding coolant to the expansion tank. Use a 50 50 mix of coolant and water Do not use just straight coolant. Keep adding until you see coolant stream out of the t-stat housing bleeder. Close it. Continue adding until coolant streams out of the bleeder on the rad. Close it. fill that expansion tank to the seam.

    Now start you car. Once running turn the heater on high with the fan running about half speed. Let the car run until it gets warm. With the car running crack open the bleeder on the RAD. Let the coolant start to stream out. If it spurts out you still have air in the systam. Once all the air is out you will have a nice stedy stream of coolant comming out of the rad bleeder.

    Fill the expansion tank to a level that is now just above the seam of the tank. Put the cap on and go for a short drive around the block. Bleed once more and you should be done.

    Hope this helps.
     
  4. Dr Tommy Cosgrove

    Dr Tommy Cosgrove Three Time F1 World Champ
    Owner Rossa Subscribed

    May 4, 2001
    36,228
    Birmingham, AL
    Full Name:
    Tommy
    Just curious; once the heater valves are open why would you need the heater fan on at all?
     
  5. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    Thanks T. That was very helpful. I am now at the point where I am trying to get the lower hose off but am having a lot of trouble getting to the c-clamp. And once I get it off I don't even want to contemplate getting it back on. Someone on another post said it takes about 35 minutes to remove the pump including getting the tire and interior covers off.
     
  6. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    2,184
    Kingsport, TN
    Full Name:
    Lawrence A. Coppari
    You might consider replacing the hoses on the rear of the pump. They harden with age and resealing can be difficult.

    Water pump is no big deal on these cars. Did mine 3 years ago but don't recall what I took off. Probably a lot because I did the belts, etc. at the same time.
     
  7. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,021
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    Unless I'm replacing the hoses to the main pump body, I just remove the nose section for a rebuild. 35 minuites to get it off sounds about right.

    If you're considering rebuilding your WP, you'll find the links to tips & to 2 removal & rebuild procedures in my post in the following thread to be comprehensive:

    http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2285&highlight=water+pump+rebuild

    (I'd have re-posted it here, but links don't cut & paste).

    A couple of tips for disassembling the nose:

    1) Since Al expands a lot more than steel, put the WP housing in a 350F or 400F oven for 15-20 minuites. Good chance that the outer bearing will come out very easily .

    2)Biggest PITA is the big c-clip that holds the inner bearing's outer race in place. You need a strong c-clip tool that can reach way down inside the WP nose.

    Once you know your bearing size, consider using stainless steel bearings from McMaster Carr.
     
  8. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    I have removed all of the hoses except the lower hose going into the thermostat. I just cannot get a screwdriver on the c-clamp. This task seems impossible without removing the plenum. any thoughts anyone.

    Thanks.
     
  9. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    A large braided fabric hose sits on top of the thermostat hose that I am trying to get off making it seemingly impossible to get at the c-clap. Any suggestions? Thanks.
     
  10. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    Finally got all of the c-clamps loosened after loosened the braided line. Now although the WP wiggles back and forth I cannot pull it out. someone suggested cutting the lower hose on the thermostat and just replacing it when I put the new WP back in. Any suggestions?
     
  11. Lawrence Coppari

    Lawrence Coppari Formula 3

    Apr 29, 2002
    2,184
    Kingsport, TN
    Full Name:
    Lawrence A. Coppari
    I do recall using a 1/4 inch socket set with a U-joint attached to socket plus some extensions to get the clamp off/on.
     
  12. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    Thanks Laurence. That is what I wound up doing and as I said in my last post I just cannot get the WP to break loose from the hoses. Some of the posts talk about taking the hoses off before removing the pump but I do not think that is possible. There is a lot of wiggle and play in the WP and housing but even with the clamps loosened it still will not pull free.
     
  13. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    OK Guys. finally got the WP off after cutting the lower hose into the thermostat. I don't look forward to the gymnastics that will be required to replace it.

    Anyone have any experience with the rebuild available from Durable 1 or the rebuit unit from T. Rutlands?

    Thanks to every o0ne for their help. Great forum!!
     
  14. Europeanroadandracing

    Europeanroadandracing South Carolina
    Professional Ferrari Technician

    Dec 19, 2003
    2,228
    Isle of Palms, SC
    Full Name:
    Karl Troy
    Rebuild it yourself, it is very easily done and self explanatory.
    The whole job Remove, Rebuild and Reinstall normally takes about an hour unless you have issues like you did with the hoses not coming loose. I guess you have to weigh the options. How much can you save by doing it yourself and is it worth your headache. BTW, some WP housings are so badly corroded inside that the sealing surfaces are badly damaged and /or will not hold the outer bearing in place tightly. The same thing can happen to the shaft. It ususally is very pitted where it meets the seal and needs to be polished on a lathe if there is enough meat left. It may be best to get a ready to go unit. Judging by your earlier questions I don't think you want to deal with all these possible issues.
    Have Fun

    Karl
     
  15. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    Now with the WP out I have to figure out how to replace the lower hose going into the thermostat.. Can this be done without removing the plenum?

    By the way when I get done I will pull my experience together in a post so that others may benefit from it.
     
  16. Verell

    Verell F1 Veteran
    Consultant Owner

    May 5, 2001
    7,021
    Groton, MA
    Full Name:
    Verell Boaen
    There are already two very thorough water pump rebuild procedures written up (See links in my earlier post). Then there are a dozen or so wp rebuild related threads in fchat. Your writeup will only be useful if it's better than those procedures.
     
  17. RussF

    RussF Karting

    Nov 1, 2003
    222
    Washington
    The reason that I asked so many questions is that the prior posts left a lot out in connection with the removal of the WP. It took me literally hours to get the lower hose off.
     
  18. tbakowsky

    tbakowsky F1 World Champ
    Consultant Professional Ferrari Technician

    Sep 18, 2002
    19,827
    The Cold North
    Full Name:
    Tom

    Did you loosen the clamp that holds the lower pipe to the intake runner? This makes it alot easier..I stated this above in my instructions. I have never had to cut a lower hose.
     

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