308 Winter Maintenance / Cam Seals / Cam Drive Bearing

ok - thks for everyones post.

Dan - The Parts total I would say at this point is around $1000. This is everything for the major, plus this bearing job. It's difficult without going through all the papers to say, as I've also been buying tools along the way, and I've also got some cosmetic parts (like new distributor rubber boots for example) as well. But ball park around ~1000. The most frustrating thing is that other than two shift shaft seals and the trans sump gasket, all the rest of the parts are sitting in a box waiting to be installed....

I was also a QV wanna be (well really a F-car wanna be) for a long time. I don't post much on this board, as the my technical expertise doesn't match most of the guys here, but if you want any advice about going from Wanna-Be to Be let me know.

Verell / Ham - thanks for the tips. I ordered a new seal today and two replacement ring nuts.

Ok - I have two new questions.

The first is, if you look at the TAV008 picture, where exactly are the "outer bearing seals". My guess would have been that it's either 38, 39 or 36. However these are described as "Washer", "Ring" and "Ring".

Second - Suppose that I wanted to take out the timing gear cover. (I don't btw - really trying to avoid it). From the research I've done, you have to take the engine sump off (done that), then undo the three nuts holding on the pick up tube, then double nut the studs and remove the studs.

My question is, why do you have to take the studs out ? Bear in mind that I'm no where near the car, and I'm just looking at the parts diagrams. Why won't the timing cover come off without removing the studs ? If you look at the below picture (stolen from the JWise thread) I can see where the pick-up tube attaches to the timing cover. But if this still had the studs on, couldn't you just lift it up and out ?

This may be a stupid question, and wishful thinking on my part (If I only had to take out the pick-up tube.....I could replace the rear bearings as well....)

Jas
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Never mind to the second question - I just figured it out. You have to take the studs out because the timing cover won't go up. If has to be pulled out to clear the crank / damper end - right ?

Makes me wonder why the picture above has a Stud in it ?

Wishful thinking on my part....

Jas

 

Hi,

managed to get an hour working on the car today, which was unexpected.

Good news was that after spraying with PB Blaster (that finally arrived) and a good zap with the air gun, I got both nuts holding the cam drive gears off.

Then more good news, using my new puller which I bought last week at Sears, I pulled off the gears.

Then I managed to get the circlips out.

Then I managed to straighten out the bent cam pulley (I don't have a picture of it straight yet). I need to file / sand it down a little, as the edge is fairly rough, but it is straight again which is good news as it saved me $200.

Then the bad news is that I had to stop.

Carry on next weekend, where I should get a decent amount of time (although my guess is that it's going to take me the whole w/k to get the woodruff keys out.....any tips on that other than wacking it with a punch ?)

Sykes tools still hasn't arrived. Essex parts are out of stock. I call the guy every other day hassling him to see if its arrived yet, but no luck so far.

Still - progress today - light at the end of the tunnel and it isn't a train!

Pics below

Jas
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Hey Verell,

Here is a better picture of the puller. Next weekend when I go back upstate, I will try and find the packaging to get the P/N (pretty sure it's in the garbage in the kitchen, which luckily I didn't throw out !)

I'm pretty sure it's this one however : although I thought I paid around $45 for it and this one is $59

http://www.sears.com/sr/javasr/product.do?BV_UseBVCookie=Yes&vertical=TOOL&pid=00930162000&subcat=Automotive+Specialty+Tools

The claw of the puller didn’t quite fit behind the gear, although if it was “lightly” tightened down, it had enough to grab it. Once I pulled the gear out a little, I was able to readjust the claw to fit snuggly behind the gear. I’m not sure if I was just lucky or not.

That being said, you could probably file down the end of the claw to be able to slot behind the gear.

Not looking forward to the woodruff keys. Don’t have a brass punch either – maybe I should buy one before starting this.

Jas

PS – any tips on a product to clean the gunk off of my timing case ?
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Hi Verell,

I found the packaging for the puller. I bought it in sears, but it's not the one in the link above. It's by a company called Posilock. The link u want is

http://www.posilock.com/ManPullers/man103opt.htm

JAson

 

Progress today - and then a roadblock.

pictures : out of focus shot of the woodruff key after tapped out with brass punch
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bearing with plastic cover removed
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- the imfamous sykes tool
- drilling out the old bearing
- the sykes tool in use
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ok - hear is my latest problem if anyone can help. got both the old bearings out - cool

cleaned up the area where the bearing sits.

started to insert new bearing using old nut and washers / pullley.

So far so good. Got the new bearing, however cannot get it all the way in. It's currently sticking out ~2mm. It needs to go in another ~4 mm so that I can put the circlip back and lock it in.

I'm now at a point where turing the nut is very very hard. When I try and turn it, more often that not the engine tries to turn. Have tried "locking" the engine (5th gear / handbrake / screwdriver in caliper). Have tried a variety of washers, pulley, even the old bearing.

I can clearly get a bigger wrench or air gun, but is this a good idea ?

Should i tap it with a hammer ? probably not, as this will just break the plastic ring.

Any ideas ?

Jason

 

Ok - here is what I did.

Firstly the woodruff keys. The first one took about an hour or so until I figured out exactly how to do it. The second one, once I figured it out, actually took about 10 mins.

Here is what I did. Turn the engine so the woodruff key is facing upwards. Using a thin brass punch and hammer, tap on the end of the key which is nearest to you. This has the effect of turning the key in it's hole and so the end which is furthest away from you is now sticking up. Eventually the end closest to you will be flush with the shaft.

Then using another punch, which has the same diameter as the key, you can tap the key further into the shaft. This again brings the end furthest from you up.

You can sort-of see this in the very out-of-focus picture above. Once you tap the end closest to you, as "far as it will go", you should have a fair amount of the other end sticking out. Then I got some copper electrical wire which I fed round the back of the key sticking up, and pulled toward me. This yanked it out.

Not sure if This would work for others, or if I was just luckily in getting the second one out so fast, but it worked for me.

Ok - now the bearings - got the old ones out and cleaned the shaft and hole.

Took the new bearing and put some 3-1 oil on the outer and inner races. Also put some on the shaft and hole. Stuck the bearing on the shaft. Could only push it on a very small amount (just enough to get the ring nut on - i'm amazed that you can "push these in" - i must be doing something wrong)

Tightened the ring nut to the end of the thread, more or less. At this point the nut is only applying pressure to the inner race, but I figured (perhaps wrongly) that this was ok, as the bearing was no where near the hole.

Then took off the nut. Put the damper washer in front of the bearing and go through the same procedure with the nut. This does apply pressure to inner and outer races, and gets the bearing in about half way.

Then using a thin washer, stick the pulley on and go at it again with the nut. This gets the bearing into the hole with about 1-2mm sticking out. Ideally you need it 1-2 mm in as it has to clear the circlip groove, so I'm now about 4mm short.

This is where I got to saturday. With a whole bunch of combinations of pulley / washers /nuts etc I can't get it in any further. The nut tightens and then just turns the engine. If I stop the engine from turning (gears / handbrake / screwdriver) I cannot tighten the nut further using a socket and 8 inch wrench. I could get the breaker bar out, but I figured that would probably just strip the nut.

I also took the old bearing, got rid of the plastic rings on both sides, removed the metal inside which holds the balls in, so I was left with just the inner / outer races and the balls. I put that onto the shaft, nutted it on, washered it on, so that it was now pushing up against the new bearing. I figured this would also apply even pressure to the inner / outer races as it's exactly the same size. Again with this, washer and nut, I turned the nut to the point where I though I was going to strip it. No luck - I sykes tooled off the old bearing.

Yesterday I tried getting a piece of wood, and tapping it with a rubber mallet. The wood was thick enough to cover a "semi circle" of the bearing. i.e. I tapped the top, then the bottom, then the left, then the right. The wood covered both inner and outer races and spanned the hole.

Thie actually yielded a good result. I got the bearing about 1-2 mm and it was now flush with the case. This made be happy. I then attempted to cut some wood to try and touch both the outer and inner races, but not the timing cover so that I could bang it in the final 1-2 mm. This sort-of worked. It had the effect of pushing the bearing in further (still not enough for me to put the circlip in, but I can now see the groove !), however it also had the effect of slightly damaging / denting the plastic ring (not sure what you call that). That was the point I decided to stop and sulk and go and drink beer.

I'm now wondering if I've damaged the stupid bearing. It's been bugging me all day today, and I'm actually considering buying another bearing. I'm sure it will be fine if I put it all back together, but then again, it would really suck if I did put it all back together to find there was something wrong with the bearing and then I had to take it all apart again......

As far as getting the bearing in - either the current bearing, or me spending another $100 on this little project, my latest thought were to go through the above again, put the old bearing on top of the new one as I did on saturday, and then hit it with the wood. This should then work, as the wood seems to do the final push, and if the old bearing is there in front of the new bearing, then I would not damage the plastic ring.

Anyway - thoughts welcome and appreciated

Agggghhhhhh

Jas

 

Hi,

I would also like to thank people on this board for thier help.

Phil - glad to see somebody else is doing this also, and glad to see that my post is useful to others, and not just me asking a bunch of stupid questions.

To remove the woodruff keys - firstly you MUST use a BRASS punch. Do not be tempted to use anything other than BRASS. You had to hit it pretty hard, and Brass is softer than other metals, so the punch will deform rather than (in this case) the woodruff key of the shaft.

I covered the woodruff key with WD40 and PB Blaster.

Then I rotated the engine so that the keys were facing upwards. DO NOT DO THIS if the Cams are still attached. I simply did this for ease of access for the punch / hammer.

Then, with the punch 90 degree angle to the shaft, and the end of the punch on top of the woodruff key, but not in the center, but on the end furthest away from the engine you hit the key and it should start to turn.

What will happen is the punch will deform to the point that you have to reface it (hit it with a hammer so that it's square again on the end).

I spent the first hour with the punch parrallel to the shaft trying to tap it that way, but no luck.

Hope this helps.

I do not know the bearing part number.

If you get as far as installed the new bearing, please post a blow-by-blow account of how you did it.

Thks

Jas

 

Phil - glad to hear you're making progress. I haven't worked on mine since I posted last. Hopefully will get some time on it this w/k.

You can get the bearings from Superformance in the uk for 14.99 sterling.

With my bearing out, you can push the shaft in an out slightly (not sure if it's as much as 1/2 in) and the shaft would also wiggle slightly.

Let me know how you get on with putting the bearings in. I'm going to have another go at this tommorow or sunday.

Jas