WHAT I DID ON MY VACATION. I decided to install new window switches in the 308. Could only operate the passenger window from the drivers side. I found that the only bad switch was the one I was using to operate the drivers side window. I went ahead and installed the new switches and as you may have guessed, the passenger window switch doesn't work. Each switch on the drivers side is fed by a power wire that connects to two terminals on each switch. Each switch is also fed by a black grouind wire that connects to two terninals on each switch. The remaining two terninals on each switch (6 terminals total) are "shunt" circuits to run the motors back and forth by reversing polarity in the switch. I studied the wiring diagram in the owners manual for an hour and found that each motor uses two supply wires, but using only one when the motor is turning in one direction leaving the other as the "return" (common) . When the switch is moved the other way the circuits do double duty by changing polarity to where the supply becomes return and the return becomes supply thus running the motor backwards.. This circuit "shunting" is done in the switch itself. To confuse matters further, the switch incorporates a cross polarity ground (earth) that picks up the "return" from the motor (depending on position of the switch) and grounds to the frame. Both switches on the drivers side of the car operate both windows but I cannot figure out how the passenger switch is configured (6 wires on each switch) so it will operate the passeger window independently. It is fed ONLY by two "shunt" wires from the drivers side switch and has NO INDEPENDENT power source of it's own.. I spent 4 hours today with a volt meter and drawing diagrams trying to figure out how to wire that passenger switch. There aren't that many options because if you get it too far off the drivers side switch won't run it either! My conclusion is, Ferrari wired it this way on purpose so the passenger would have to ask first before adjusting the window up or down. The passenger switch WILL NOT OPERATE until one of the "shunt" circuits is activated from the drivers side to power the passenger switch. There must be somebody out there that has gone through this very dilemma. Any help or switch diagrams would be hugely appreciated. Just a note; With these new switches my windows haul !!!! In addition to all of this I plan on installing a new CD player with new speakers and SUB in the footwell. The Blaupunkt POS has to go! The speakers were not even screwed to the inside of the door!!!! Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
DJ, Mine was just the opposite, the drivers side switch for the passenger window didn't work but it would work from the passenger side switch. All of the problems with mine went away when I replaced the fuse panels though so I never had to get into the wiring. Where'd you find the switches at, I just had one of mine start falling apart. Looks like it was already glued together once. Good luck with your switches.
I got my switches from T Rutlands. 27.00 each! Sweet! They told me they were all the same regardless of where they mounted in the car. The part #60094000. I am wondering if they may be incorrect and the drivers side switch is set up differently to supply power to the passenger shunt circuits. When I bought my car the drivers side passenger switch wouldn't work at all and the passenger switch worked only intermittantly. I switched them from one door to the other and the switch that WAS on the passenger side started working perfectly and the old drivers side switch never worked after that. This leads me to believe I cross wired something on one of the switches. (both of the old passenger switches are still good. I tested them). I have very good voltage on my fuse panels so I am going to leave them for another time. I checked the window motor relay to see if it was crapping out but that would have shut down both sides. Does anybody have a 78 they can pop the switches on and photograph? They are held in with simple little spring tabs and very easy to R&R.
I hooked a volt meter all of the wires in the window lift system, tested for voltage drop and continuity. The way the schematic is and the way this car is wired there is absolutely no power to the passenger switch until a shunt circuit is activated from the drivers side. It all matches the schematics but doesn't look like it was ever intended to be operated from the passenger side even though there is a switch there. Sort of like the silly headlight buckets coming up when you turn on the parking lights. Have another glass of wine, a little cheese, wipe the dirt off the lenses and turn off the parking lights and the problem goes away....................
Spasso -- I had a '78 and can confirm that the passenger window switch would operate the passenger side window motor without anything needing to be done with the window switches on the driver's side. The food chain you should check is (with the ignition key "on"): 1. The light blue/black (AN) wire leaving the bottom of the 8th fuse from the left of the left fuse box should be +12V. 2. The two yellow (G) wires on the passenger window switch on the driver's side should both be +12V when the passenger window switch on the driver's side is not actuated. 3. The two yellow (G) wires on the passenger window switch on the passenger side should both be +12V (when the passenger window switch on the driver's side is not actuated). Since you report "no power" on the passenger window switch wiring UNLESS you operate the switch(es) on the driver's side you must fail the tests above (but which test fails might be a clue).
Mine were added aftermarket (I know 'cause I have the little holes in the door panel where the hand crank was). Not sure if that makes a difference but mine also operates from the pass. side without using the drivers switch. I can pop the panel on mine this weekend and take some pics for you if you haven't got it sorted out by then. Thanks for the part# too!
Item #1 is GOOD The Blue/Black AN on my car is the hot lead to the driver's window switch, 9th from the left. . The driver's side passenger switch is fed by the white/Black BN, 8th from the left. Good voltage on both. Inputs at both switches were good but not sure if they were plugged into the correct terminals. Item #2 is a problem. Both solid yellows G (drivers side) are attached to the two center spades. No voltage at all. I stuck the volt meter probe into one of the black N terminals at the outer end of the switch and it raised the passenger window. I stopped right there. Item #3 Indeed the two G wires between the two switches would have to be hot for the passenger switch to slave off of the drivers switch. They have no voltage. It appears that the drivers side passenger switch is miswired. The spades on the switches have letters next to them but do no good without a guide, at least for me. I have never dealt with a system like this before. Don't know if it will do any good but I will take a picture of how my D-side Pass switch is wired.
Here are some pics. The two yellow G in the center positions with a black N at one corner crossing diagonally to the other corner. The white/black BN is at a corner crossing diagonally to the other. After reading that I think I am starting to see the light. One note; Both switches on the drivers side are wired identically. Maybe............................................. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
The 308 power windows are a joke. I replaced mine with manual window lifts from the Fiat X1/9. But my 308 is a GT4, so it may be different . . .
Mine have been cleaned and regreased. They work well and are fast. Who ever had the door panels off didn't get the switches just right or I did it moving some switches around. I'll sleep on it and get it worked out tomorrow.
Whoever installed the speakers probably messed it up....I had my door panels resprayed and the top edge window felts replaced in my 78 308gts, and the shop messed up the wiring...took them two days to get it all straightened out....I still kept having problems afterward (popping fuses), until I figured out they had installed the wrong value fuse (too low). Frustrating to say the least!
Better too low than too high!! I will go to bed tonight and my body will go to sleep but my ficking brain will stay awake all night working the spade layout on the drivers door switch. Maybe I'll take a break and go buy my speakers tomorrow.
Spasso, The P.O. of my 308 got so frustrated with this very thing that he cut the wires to the right switch and taped them together so that only the drivers side worked. I opened the door expecting to find a busted switch and instead found a perfectly normal switch and a bunch of wires in a bundle. I can't remember right now how it was wired, but I figured it out in about 15 minutes while scrtaching my head looking at the schematic, so it's not that tough. As I recall, it is possible to miswire the driver's side switch such that the passenger side won't work but the drivers side *will* work, leading you to believe that the problem is in the passenger side. Let me go get my schematic and look it through again. Birdman
OK Spasso, Please see the attached simplified schematic of the passenger door switching circuit, including both switches. What I have added that is not shown on the car's schematic is the internal wiring of the switches. (They must be wired this way internally for the circuit to work!). With the drivers side switch off (everything in the center) then you should have 12 volts on BOTH yellow wires going over to the passenger side switch. It should be very obvious how the circuit works now. If you have no power getting to the passenger side switch, then the issue is the wiring of the driver's side switch. It is easily possible to miswire this so one or both switches doesn't work, or works in the wrong direction (press down and the window goes up). Let us know how it goes. Good luck! Birdman
FYI, don't trust what you think are the right connectors on the switches. Use an ohm meter to test and be sure you know which contacts are which.
Note that this is standard. I believe that all 308s came with power windows. And the manual backup. It's a little wrench, mine is Z shaped, that you can store somewhere like your tool kit or map pocket in case the crazy Italian electrics fail!
This is really some great info. I have an inoperable pass side window switch. Both windows are ok from the drivers side. The drivers side switch sticks in the up or down position when fully depressed. Is this normal. or has the PO modified the switch, or is this a common failure mode. This little window (switch) porblem is about half way down my list of things to do, so I haven't oppened things up yet. thanks, chris (77gtb)
Spasso -- Your report on #2 that measuring something with a voltmeter (a very high impedance device) caused a window motor to run is a little odd (like you're "flexing" an intermittent connection). If you've got +12V on the light blue/black (AN) wires going to the passenger window switch on the driver's side, yet the yellow (G) wires on that switch aren't also at +12V (when the switch is not actuated) you've got to look into that first -- i.e., do you have +12V on the AN wires at the switch and nothing on the G wires (when not actuated)? I like Birdman's suggestion (and diagram) to just examine that switch itself when unplugged with an ohmmeter to get who's who on the terminals and to verify it's actually working OKish. The internals of the passenger window switch on the passenger side are shown correctly on the '78 OM schematic (per Birdman's sketch), but the drawings for both driver's side switches are very poor/unclear on that OM schematic.
Hi guys, I just woke up so bear with me. Bird, Your diagrams are almost identical to what I have in my book. No problem there. I understand HOW the juice needs to be routed. The root of the problem (my feeble understanding of diagrams) is the actual internal routing/shunting of the switch itself. The switch layout does not resemble the diagram drawn. This is where I get lost. As you can see by the pictures (sort of), the switch is comprised of two rows of 3 contacts each, activated by a "V" shaped rocker. Testing with the ohm meter is the way to go so I can determine function of each term. Getting it straight in my head and making it stick is the problem MOST IMPORTANTLY, The switch is actually two switches side by side with function of the "V" shaped rockers reversed on one side of the switch for directional control. The key is positioning, power input, motor supply(shunt) and ground on each "V" rocker. Although it is wired EXACTLY like the switch the that operates the drivers window it is obvious that this configuration will not work to create hot shunts to the other switch. It is most definately the drivers side passenger switch being miswired. My assumption is that once i get the drivers switch wired correctly then I can wire the passenger switch like the driver's window switch which is only set up for one motor/one switch. Steve, When I inserted the volt meter probe into one of the terminals (with ground wire attached) on the drivers side switch I believe that I completed a shunt circuit from the passenger door to the drivers door switch (and to ground through the volt meter) thus causing the motor to run on the passenger door. Thank GOD I'm not working on a Chevy Suburban 4 door!!! I need to go eat breakfast and wake up. I'll keep checking back with progress reports. Should be an hour or so before I start making some breakthroughs (I hope) Thank you all for the help. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
Here is a diagram/layout/drawing of the switch in reality. Only one rocker shown for clarity. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Spasso, Use an ohmmeter to buzz out the driver's side switch and find which contacts are the center ("common") ones (at the bottom of the switch on my drawing). Next find the contacts that are connected to the common contacts when the switch is not depressed. These will be the ones that come from the 12V supply. A 12 V wire (black, right?) comes from the fusebox and has a splitter on it so it can plug into those two terminals. The only contacts left are the ones that go to ground. The other switch is wires the same except that the common contacts go to the motor. You are a brave man indeed to take the switch apart! I would be afraid the thing would disintegrate in my hands. Birdman
Something is amiss with your switch...I would attempt removal, disassembly and cleaning first...(not hard), and see if you can clean it up, to proper function.
It should not stick. This could be bad for your body parts or the motor if it were to stick at the wrong time.
Okay, I put the drivers side passenger switch on the bench and hooked an ohm meter to every combination of terminals and did not find any two that had a connection to each other with the rocker in neutral position. With this condition there is NO WAY to have two hot shunts to the other switch with the drivers switch in neutral. My only thought is this part number is incorrect for this position in the car.
