Hello from Germany, unfortunately in the middle of the 'driving season' the radiator of my 308 GTB has developed a leak. O.k.; my own fault, because it developed slowly and I could see a damp spot since months. Now I have a problem with the radiator shop, which should recore my radiator. I removed it from the car and carried it to them the other day. I thought they could handle such things better, because they are manufacturing and repairing radiators since ~ 100 years. But today I get a phone call and they told me that they cannot get the 100% identical core. Problem is, the distance of the horizontal fins is 1,5mm ( 0.06" ) original and would be 4mm ( 0,16" ) on the new core. Some zigzag pattern as opposed to the original straight fins. The distance of the vertical tubes is 6mm ( 0,24") on the original and would be 10mm ( 0,39") on the new core. Now I'm worried about, whether the cooling performance will be sufficient with those parameters. Can anyone of you tell me something about this ? Does anyone have had their 308 radiator recored and how does the core look compared to the OEM core. Best Regards and thank you in advance Martin
There used to be an advert on FORZA for someone who was re-coring Ferrari radiators - I believe they 'update' OEM radiators to cool better. Might want to check there. You may also investigate just having the radiator 'rodded-out' vs. re-core, or just go with a new aluminum radiator from Nicks Forza/Evans Cooling. They stock a better radiator with exact OEM dimensions that's a drop-in replacement for the heavier, less-efficient OEM unit.
Recently found a leak in the core of my radiator. Local shop replaced the OEM core which had 72 (+/-) vertical rows with a generic core which has 48 (+/-) vertical rows. No problems whatsoever with the new core, even on hot days with the A/C on full blast. In fact, the new radiator core seems to work better, running cooler than the old. My theory is that the wider row spacing of the new core allows for greater air flow thru the radiator, which has the effect of offering better (or, at least, equivalent) cooling capability as the OEM denser core. So, go ahead. Not to worry. Cheers - DM
I just noticed this one for sale, if you insist on originality and can't get yours fixed. http://74.86.28.138/~ferrari/forum/showthread.php?t=199093
Thanks ! This sounds hopefully. But just curious; what are 'hot days' in Ohio ? How many °F ? ( centigrade conversion I can do myself Best Regards from Germany Martin
To be honest, not all that hot so far this year. Yesterday's drive (45 minutes x 2 trips) with temps in the low 80's F / high 20's C. Had the A/C on because it was a bit humid (plus I'd recently had it recharged with Freon 12, and wanted to get my money's worth ... it's like a refrigerator's freezer now!) Anyways, according to my VDO water temp gauge (believed to be much more accurate than the OEM Veglia - check the archives here under my name if interested to learn more), water temps ranged in the 180 to 200 degree F range, depending upon speed and resulting air flow thru the radiator. If your old core was the original one, you probably have enough build-up of sediment in it that the difference between old core and new will be dramatic, irrespective of the construction of the new core. Also, since you seem curious, see here at my website: http://groups.msn.com/Ferrari308GTSi/1980ferrari308gtsi.msnw?action=ShowPhoto&PhotoID=410 and then click on the next half dozen pictures or so beyond this one for all of the gory details. Cheers - DM
thanks for the link to the picture. Interesting how you removed the radiator. I also wanted to avoid breaking the lines of the AC condenser and removed the lower valance to get to the lower fasteners. The climate conditions in Ohio seem to be similar to ours here in southwest Germany. But I wonder about the speeds you are driving. The extreme case I can imagine - and have experienced - is, that I drive on our speed limit free german autobahn with - say - around 140mls/hr. for a while, getting suddenly stuck in a traffic jam at ambient temperatures around 30° centigrade . Such things happen continually. This is, what the cooling system has to bear. Best Regards from Germany Martin
I just went through this and ended up replacing the original core with a staggered 4 row (I think it was an "R" code) core. I agree, it cools better and I don't seem to have problems with getting air into the system and having it overflow after driving. I recently drove it around for a charity event we had. The temps were 90+ and the car's temp gauge never even broke 195. It did bounce off 195 once or twice when stopped, but the fans would come on and the temp would drop right back down. I was very happy and impressed!! While I don't get many, OK I probably don't get ANY chances to drive mine at 140+ and then wind up stopped in traffic, I think you'll find that as long as the rest of the system is operating properly the new core will make a world of difference!!
thank you John and Dave; I just ordered a complete overhaul including the core they offered. In the meantime I received a picture from Ferrari UK ( Maranello Concessionaires ), which shows their exchange radiator they are offering. It's also no more the very same design like the former OEM core which came with the car back in the 70s. It has the very same core like that I will get from my radiator shop. It has 65 (+/-) vertical tubes. I will get my new core including labour for EUR 500,-- ( ~ $ 750,-- ). What do you think ? Is this a fair price ? The Ferrari UK exchange radiator is ~ GBP 1000,-- + VAT. Makes $ 2.300,--. And this is even without shipping which - I assume - won't be neither cheap. Best Regards from Germany Martin
Thinking about this one some more on your behalf, I now recall that I had this new recored radiator fitted in the 308 last summer, prior to the Ferrari track days at Mid-Ohio, a local high speed race circuit. See picture of my car below, taken during this event. 80 minutes of competitive high speed laps with constantly changing (shifting at the redline) engine revs on a warm and humid 85 degree F / 30 degree C day. Seems to me that this constant full throttle up and down engine rev activity would be a more strenuous test of the cooling system ( and of the entire car!) than would be a sustained high speed straight line run, as youd get a ton of air flow naturally thru the radiator for this second scenario. On the track, the engine, with the newly recored radiator, ran at 200 degrees F (+/-) all day long, never overheating or once missing a beat. From the description of your worries, it strikes me that you are perhaps focusing your attention onto the wrong area. If overheating -after- a high speed run is your main concern, I would therefore direct my attention upon the electric cooling fan system. For this after slow or stopped situation, you will not have much natural air flow thru the radiator and will therefore be at the mercy of the pair of fans to enable your car to keep its cool. And the more open core area of your proposed replacement radiator core will allow more fan forced air to pass thru the radiator, which is the goal that you are after. If you went thru the pictures on my website immediately after the one posted in the link as I had suggested earlier, you will have read that as a part of this radiator R & R work, I installed a cooler thermo switch, so that my radiator fans now turn on earlier, at a lower temperature. Details of this switch, which originally was fitted to some sort of a weird old Peugeot, should be found on this site via a search under my user name. Further digging deeper into my website pictures at the aforementioned link, if you are indeed curious enough to spend the time, will bring forth that I had also R & Rd both radiator cooling fan motors with new brushes and lubricated bearings. The fan motor bearings had apparently never been touched prior to my work all of their bearings were bone dry of lubricant and operated slowly. Id already gone thru the fan wiring circuitry with upgraded fuses, cleaned connectors, and all of the other electrical preventive maintenance items that I am assuming youve also already addressed by now. The end result of all of my radiator / fan / electrical system work is that I now have no- worries about overheating under any reasonable circumstances. Cheers - DM P.S. - My radiator recore cost me about $250.00 USD total at a local shop, and I thought that THAT was expensive. You're getting hosed at $750.00 - Keep looking! Image Unavailable, Please Login
yes; but my theory was, that water flow while idling is slower than while driving. And that this requires more cooling capability to cool down heat accumulation of the engine. Similar to that symptom I also know from other cars, that after shutting down the engine, there's a - even though short - rise in temperature. My experience is, that my fans only switch on, in traffic while driving very slow or idling. While cruising at low speeds or even driving fast temperature rarely reaches 90°C ( or 195° ) - the mid position of the gauge. This is the temperature, when my fans start to participate. But as soon as the fans come on, the temperature always drops as it should. So I think my cooling system works well and my only concern was, that with a new core, which has less capability, things could get worse. OHHHHH; I would be glad to find a shop, who would charge me that price you paid for your radiator rebuild. I have two offers from two different shops, who almost charge the same. Labour is very expensive over here and I think I will have to live with these costs. I even inquired at two independent core manufacturers and the core alone costs significantly more than that, what you paid for your complete job. O.k.; $ 750,-- sounds expensive, but this was a conversion from EUR to $ and like you probably know, the EUR-currency is incredibly expensive these days. Currency rate EUR / USD is 1.563 / 1 today. Best Regards from Germany Martin
Mine looked close enough to stock that I don't think anyone but the pickiest person could tell the difference. My cost was $800 total but I checked with several places and the price was just about identical. I think the price of copper could have something to do with the increase??!! $250 sounds like the deal of the century, I wonder how they did that. Like Martin said the cost of my core was more than that. I've dealt with the shop that did my work, very small single proprietor and he is VERY honest!! I'm just happy it runs nice and cool and doesn't puke every time I stop driving!! I'd do the re-core and never look back. Even if you are competing in concours events I doubt you will lose any points for it and if so at least you're car will love you for it!!
Hello all, yesterday I received my 'new' re-cored radiator. I'm really excited about the nice work they have done. Now I hope to find the time to reinstall it till the coming weekend to look how my cooling system behaves with that new core. Best Regards from Germany Martin Image Unavailable, Please Login
Hello all, what can I say; it's perfect. In the meantime - though weather is not so warm in Germany these days - I tested my cooling system with the new radiator core thoroughly. I cannot say, that there's much difference, but at least I have no more radiator leaks The inspection of the old core at the radiator shop showed eight ! minor leaks. I have only discovered three; the other five were on the front, where you can barely see them with the AC condenser installed. Apart from the several leaks the old core was not bad. Not much sediment and all tubes were clean. Therefore no big difference in the coolant system behaviour. A proof, that the system was always filled with the correct amount and quality of antifreeze. My car has now 112.000 kms ( 70 kmls. ) on the odometer and I think the leaks were simply caused by fatigue of the solder seams. In the meantime while waiting for my radiator I replaced all of the coolant hoses to avoid blocking my new core with any old rubber waste coming from deteriorating hoses. Best Regards from Germany Martin Image Unavailable, Please Login
Any good radiator shop can do it...its just a radiator. I had my BB512i radiator recored about 5 years ago by a local shop...I had them do what they called a "heavy duty" recore like is done on cars that pull a trailer...it has cooled great ever since...
Martin, That looks identical to the re-core I had done on our Mondial radiator last year (which cost about $350 if I recall). No problems since. Birdman
Martin, While I can see your front hood foam strip is in good repair, the rear one is also present, sealing the tire well??? Also the original foam runs down both sides and even a corner block at the top of each side, as well as along the bottom of the radiator support, to "force" air properly thru the radiator itself....in the photo you have posted the corner blocks at each side are definately missing! Can you find a parts diagram the shows these foam pieces? No big deal to cut them with your bread knife...
thanks for this, but I cannot find the corner blocks in any of my parts books. I have the '76 308 GTB, the '80 GTB/GTS, and the '78 US 308 GTB/S book and neither shows the corner blocks you are referring to. No, the foam strip which should seal the tire well is missing. I never saw a problem. The foam on both sides is present. But the foam strip below the radiator is missing. I think it got lost when my car got the deep front spoiler. Thank you for pointing me in that direction; I think next time I remove my radiator - hope not too soon - I will add it. But I just saw in the '76 book, that the early cars didn't have it. Best Regards from Germany Martin
Anyone have a tip/reference to a qualified shop for having a 308 qv radiator recored in the newark delaware region (1/2 way between Baltimore and Philadelphia). My 308 radiator is showing somes signs of leaking and would like to get this taken care of.
I added a cockpit controlled across the two terminals of the thermo-contolled thermostat switch in the bottom of the radiator. Interestingly, this is a ground circuit to the relay which controls the fans. My experience was that at a long traffic light the radiator fluid would heat up before the automatic switch could sense the temperature increase in time. Therefore the cockpit switch so that I can turn on the fans before the fluid heats up to where the the thermo-switch kicks in.
Hiya Tex. Were those "corner blocks" present on the QVs? I can't seem to see them in any diagrams. I am in the process of replacing all of the foam, just having the new foam at the top of the radiator has definitely had a positive impact on running temps. My thermal fan switch is on its way out, so I had to make some adjustments this weekend.
