Buongiorno, you're living in Switzerland ! Your question is serious ? Anyway; it's mandatory on all kind of roads. Even on the south side of the Alps Best Regards Martin
I don't understand how what I described is any different then what comes stock on many cars. A portion of the lens is brighter than the rest, from the outside it looks stock but inside the brighter LEDs are walled off from the rest of the light. OP why not rig up the legal LEDs, recessed in the grill, until you can figure out a more elegant solution? Maybe find a way to make custom front indicators where the blue part would be clear for the DRL. Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
On the stock rear light lenses on some other cars, there is a defined fog light portion (which can be incorporated into a rear "running" light), and a defined brake light portion. They are carefully designed/manufactured to ensure that the light from one portion does not spill into the neighbouring portion. The fog light cannot be incorporated into the same lens as the brake light as it could cause confusion as to whether a fog light or brake light is in use. (It should also be noted that most manufacturers these days only fit one rear fog light to the offside of the car in order to further reduce the possibility of any fog light/brake light confusion). The fact that for markets that require them, Ferrari have always added additional rear fog lights on the 308 GTB/GTS; the 328 GTB/GTS, the Mondials, even the the F40's, show that the fog lights cannot be incorporated into the rear light lens. (Some UK 288 GTO's do not appear to have rear fog lights fitted, but by Law, they should have, and those that run legally do so by fitting an "after-market" fog light mounted underneath the off-side bumper). The rear light lenses on the 308 GTB/GTS incorporate both the rear "running" light and the brake light already so you cannot add a fog light into the lens as well as it could cause confusion - For example, If the bright rear fog lights are on, it would make it hard to spot the brake lights going on risking a rear end shunt! TBH, I cant see the problem with fitting the "after-market" fog lights underneath the rear bumper as it's exactly what Ferrari did originally on the 308 GTB/GTS series for markets requiring them and therefore would not look out of place.
No confusion if you did what you just said, and what I have been saying; you would have a separate, defined, walled off light inside the original lens.
The problem is that they are so obviously ugly, Phill. A bolted on afterthought. I'm sure Fioravanti would agree with me. I don't care 1c whether they are period correct, factory original. I'd rather have a hidden, period incorrect, LED strip.
The ugly square ones under the bumper are the stock rear fogs, and I think the UK cars actually had two of them. You can see the light here on my car. Not the prettiest thing I agree, but it is correct. Image Unavailable, Please Login
Yeah, I have one of those. Truly horrible. My ideal solution wpuld be a strip that fits in the slot between the exhaust pipes.
Thanks for all the helpful answers!!! I found some nice looking lights in the Hella range and am awaiting confirmation that therese are conform with ECE-R 87 They have halogen bulbs and not LED so mounted on or behind the grille they should look quite nice and more "period" then blue-ish LED strips Now I hope they are certified for Europe as "RL" for those who speak German, here is a really good site detailing the rules: Ihr Informationsportal für Tagfahrleuchten
Yes, the MOT regs are based on the law - The Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations 1986 - but the rules are not retrospective. Cars registered from 01/04/80 should have been fitted with a fog lamp at that time - this may have been a dealer fit item, but it would have been required for correct registration. Essentially, the law does not require you to fit an item now which was not required at the time. A recent example (albeit European legislation rather than domestic) is the provision of daytime running lights which are required on vehicles first used from February 2011 but do not need to be retrofitted .
So why do Japanese grey imports have to have a rear fog light fitted to be road legal in the UK when they never had a rear fog light fitted in Japan? Again, the MOT manual (UK MOT Information, Rear Foglights , Mot Manual, 1.1 Front and Rear Position of Lamps, Registration Plate Lamps & Rear fog lamps and m4s01000301 ) states: 1.3 Rear Fog Lamps This inspection applies to the one rear fog lamp which is required to be fitted to the centre or offside of vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1980. Reason for Rejection 2. A mandatory rear fog lamp: a. missing, insecure, obviously incorrectly positioned or does not face to the rear Nowhere do the MOT regs state "If fitted originally" - They state that a rear fog light is required to be fitted to vehicles first used on or after 1 April 1980. That to Me says that there has to be a rear fog light on the car and therefore it is retrospective. As for your DRL example, the Law simply states that cars manufactured from 2011 must be fitted with DRL's. There is no Law stating that they must be used/operational, and they are not a mandatory light for use on the road (show Me in the MOT manual where they are declared a legal requirement to use a car on the road! - They are classified as an optional lamp). Rear fog lights though are classed as a mandatory lamp.
As far as Switzerland is concerned, all the law says is that you have to drive with your lights on at all times. As it is illegal to drive with your parking/position lights in Switzerland and many EU countries (since they ARE parking or position lights, not driving lights), this simply means low-beams on old cars or for new cars cars, with their dedicated day light running lights on. The only reason for the LED DLRs to get developed was that they consume less energy than halogen/xenon low-beams. Many Scandinavian countries had low-beam daytime rules for a ling time. If you retrofit DRLs, you need to respect a minimum distance to the blinker of 40mm, or the DLR needs to operate at reduced intensity during the blinker activity to ensure you can see the blinker in operation.
Yes, so it is not required on vehicles before that date = not retroactive. If your car was first registered/used in the UK (not somewhere else) before 1 April 1980, you do not need a fog light.
But when did the factory start fitting them? I recall someone on another forum found that when this rule was introduced, fairly recently, the date which required them did not match the date at which they were originally required to be fitted on new cars. There was a year or 2 difference.
It might well be that the cars initially (right after the introduction of the UK rule) left the factory without the lights and they were fitted only in the countries that required them. Then as more places needed them they got factory-fitted.
Deep sigh - yes! When they were fitted at the factory is a moot point, this was pre-Eu regs, so minor mods like the fitment of a fog lamp would probably been done by the importer - Maranello Concessionaires, prior to registration. French ones probably had yellow lights, and right dipping headlight etc, but it's hardly relevant to the UK market - or indeed the Swiss one... Apologies to the OP for the distraction from his thread. My thoughts are that, if some discretely hidden LEDs meet the requirement, they are probably most fitting for the car. My main concern (and the point of my referencing UK legislation), is the fact that regulations which are retrospective do not bode well for the use of historic vehicles in the future. I have a 1932 car, a couple from the 60's and the 308 ('78). I think that it's very important that motoring organisations represent the interests of Classic / Vintage car enthusiasts to ensure that the vehicles remain legal for use on our roads. The idea of fitting DRLs, a catalytic converter or airbags to my 1932 Wolseley Hornet Special doesn't bear thinking about...
I've been looking for a suitable LED rear fog for some time, James. I suspect front LED running lights are easier to source & fit as there is much more grille space. I understand the o/p's trouble with the colour temperature of white LEDs but that's a compromise I would accept under the circumstances over something that looks like a bolted on afterthought. The circuit load will also be less, which can only be a good thing.
I'd have a look at the UK kit car industry. The choice there is quite extensive, and they too have the E-marking requirement. Headlamps - Lighting - Auto Electrical And then tuck them behind the grille, using a shell from this page: http://www.europaspares.com/auto-electrical/lighting/headlamp-shell-nest-units.html Alternatively, have a look at the Hella daytime running lights of the GT4.... Edit: If you spray the ugly fake-carbon housing, these might be nice: http://www.europaspares.com/auto-electrical/lighting/headlamps/single-headlamp-3-5.html. At 3.5" (89 mm) they are very compact, and E-marked.
