308/328 got different shafts, longer for Mondial Task was to change boots from picture you can see that I broke inner part as Mondial 3.2 shafts are clued to CV joint... Lukily one of my 308's got "spare" joint to borow for weekend. Mondial driveshaft are same as F40 and 288GTO and both got same green hand painted (not spray painted) seal paint. Image Unavailable, Please Login
...'I'm almost half-way through the job of replacing all four boots on my '86 328 that I've had since Oct. of '99. The car had 16K miles when I got it, it now has 42K. Before I even started the job, I went out and purchased everything Dave recommended, including the can of PB Blaster and heavily soaked all allen-head bolts and the lock nuts the night before I started. Unfortunately, I wasn't one of the lucky ones.' I've had the most problems with the bolts on the inboard side? I lost one allen-head and had to cut off the nut with a little air cut-off saw. I found that by removing the lower A-arm and the anit-roll (sway) bar, which were very easy, made access to all nuts and bolts a lot easier. Also, the E-brake on the 328 is different than Dave's illustration on the 308. I also snipped one side of the ring that holds the E-brake cable in place to allow removal of each A-arm. It can be tacked later after assembly. Since even the PB Blaster wasn't the end-all in my case, I thought maybe this job had been done before and my nuts were lock-tighted on? So, I tried a small Bernzomatic torch-tip and heating up the nuts. That didn't help either. Also tried giving the bolts a good rap with a 3' long piece of 1/2 inch round stock. Next step will be a long punch. I can get a good, clear shot at each nut. If that doesn't do it for the two remaining toughies, I'll resort to BlakeChow's mention of the Craftsman Bolt Out kit. Other notes: Both of my outer carriers on the outboard cv joint were bent from an obvious interference with the drive shaft at one time? Could the previous owner have gone over one helluva bump and bottomed out or is this a frequent occurance? And, the part number on my driver's side driveshaft/cv joint is 7 153 15 01 87 001 lobro 31/85 w germany.......'Is that an OEM Ferrari part number or is it a VW/Porsche part number? ...Thus, the job's been done before? I've always used the bearing packer to pack wheel bearings that ChrisMarsh suggested and already have one cv joint bolted up to it and ready for the grease gun. Thanks to Dave and all the comments and hot tips; it's nice having 'company' while doing a sometimes frustrating and dirty job!
The 31/85 is a date code - 31st week of 1985. Seems like those would be the originals. Mine had the same form of date code except it was 1974.
Very nice write up. Between you and Birdman, dIYers can keep these little gems going on a beer budget - plus its fun to work on. The on ething I would add is - if you are reading this because you are anticipating a CV problem, be sure to get under there now and eyeball things. I drove my 308 1,100 miles back from buying it only to discover that two of the CVjoints bolts had completely backed out slinging moly everywhere. Damn lucky on that one. We later checked my buds 512BBi and guess what? Same thing! Check those CV bolts tonight folks. Out.
My car sat for 2 years while I worked on it and some of the grease separated and is /was being slung out on my rear bank header shield! I used the Redline CV and still think it is the best but wish there was a gasket on the not boot side. I guess most grease has separation problems.....
Friends, I am glad you are all still here. I will need a bit more help. It seems that my gearbox oil has seeped into the CV joint so I need to fix this. I will redo my CV joints but also need to remove the inner flanges and replace the differential flange seal if possible. Brian gave me some tips on using RTV to glue the flange onto the spline. Has anyone else completed this. I assume you need to drain the GB oil. I think I might have over filled the gear box a bit which may have contibuted to this but I understand that most mechanic glue the inner flanges on so maybe the oil is at that level already. Thanks in advance for any suggestions. Rob
I didn't have to drain the gearbox. Look at the level plug and compare to the bottom edge of the diff seals. The diff seals will pry out. I used the flange to get the seals started squarely in the bore. I botched one and the local auto parts store had the right size in stock. (I think it was a Porsche 944 front wheel bearing seal?)
Robert I recently did this job as part of the rear suspension bushing rebuild. It was pretty straight forward. Once the halfshafts were out of the way I used an impact wrench to loosen the nut holding the flanges on and with a small 2 jaw puller the flanges came off pretty easy. The old seals popped right.. I screwed up one new seal putting it in ..but got the second one in right or so I thought. I didn't pay attention to how deep the original seals were in and put the passenger side one in only flush with the case (mistake...as after putting every thing back together I was getting a mystery leak..which turned out to be the result of the flange wearing a hole in the seal...duh!) Turns out I should have pressed it all the way in. So in this case the 3rd time was the charm as I have no leaks. I used the anarobic sealer on the splines of the flange as was mentioned in some of the other F-chat treads...instead of RTV and it was a ***** to get back off (given my screw-up) A used Ultra Black RTV when I put it back together the 2nd time (also recommended in some of the past threads) You shouldn't have to drain the fluid as the level at rest is below the flanges. Hope that helps a little
For packing my CV joints with grease I borrowed my wifes cake decorating syringe. Worked great! It even comes with 6 nozzles so you can inject the grease in various artistic patterns! Well when I say "borrowed" I suppose I technically mean "stole" as she probably wont want it back full of grease! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Friends, A mechanic pal told me that one seal opening has a ledge that stops it but the other side has to be pushed in by eye. Did any of you notice this. I need to rebuild the CV joints because of the contamination anyway but wondering if, the reason it was leaking in the first place was my gear box oil level was too high??? I also have a new set of boots with SS band different than the original. I was very successful with the original ones and wondered if anyone knows how to instal these new fangled bands, and if they know where to get the old style ones? Thanks to all for responding! Rob
Can't agree with this -- the cross-section drawings on page D19 in the 308GT4 WSM show that the LH seal bore has a built-in shoulder, and, on the RH side, the bore is straight-thru, but the part that holds the bearing outer race acts as the shoulder for the seal (although you might not fully-seat the seal if you were trying to move the contact location of the seal to a "fresh" location on the flange).
The one I screwed up from not pushing it in far enough was on the right side, and when I re-did it there was what looked like a ledge that appeared to be part of the case. Second time around I pushed the seal in all the way to the ledge and so far so good (knocking on wood). The left side however is only in slightly past flush (no leaks though) I just wished I had payed better attention when taking it apart because I couldn't remember how far they were pushed in to start with (although I do remember both were leaking) . FWIW I now have one of the $5 timken seals from Autozone on one side and one of the $30 seals on the other and no leaks on either..we will see how they hold up in the long run.
Friends, One shaft off. that was easy. I will post some pictures when I'm done and maybe even do a Ferrari for dummies write up for the GT4. I found the easiest way to get the bolts loose was to use a small extension, the 8mm Allen socket, and a breaker bar going straight down in between the control arm and the frame, this gave me the most leverage and room. BTW I saw gaskets on some VW sister how come our joints dont have gaskets seems like it would make sense? I would like some input on what your thoughts are on which bands to use. The boot kit I had came with the stainless steel modern bands however my original boots which were installed in December of 2001 showed no signs of leakage even a gearbox oil and they had the original old-style bands. Anyway, I like to hear your thoughts on which bands you would use. Which ones you think are the best which ones to use??? The left shaft which I removed 1st showed a small amount of gearbox oil leakage into the inner CV joint, my right one is the one that is leaking the most. I was amazed at the redline CV joint grease was still red. I was expecting it to be black and also to see some separation however in the outer joint the grease was thick and sticky with no signs of deterioration. I was thinking of using the grease the came with the boot kit, however after examining the condition of the crease in the joint that I removed I'm going to stick with the Red line CV–2 grease! Image Unavailable, Please Login
Wow, that grease is spotless. If it had been contaminated by the GB oil, it'd be pretty yucky looking (and this isn't). But then, didn't you have doubts with the Redline stuff (as it seemed to separate the oil out while sitting)? What do your clamps look like? I used mine that came with the boots and had no problems installing them.
Friends, I removed the shafts with little drama, however my left shaft outboard spline would not come out of the CV joint. I ended up using my press and it came out easy. What is funny is I did this 10 years ago and I had the same problem with this joint (or shaft spline) and Steve gave me advice on this, however he said that i should not have to press it out. I dont have anything in my notes but shows a pullet next to the shaft in one of my old photos.. Not sure how I would install this back. I assume I could press it back in too, as the inner cage section with the spline protrudes out the bottom. I could make it so the shaft is pressed in with the pressure on the inner cage with the sline and not put the pressure on the ball bearings. I have 51K on the car and wondering if you all think I should replace the CV joints. The ones I have are in good condition with a little bent lips on two, but maybe its time for some new ones...?. Would newer joint behave any better or would I be wasting money?? Anyway I was right on the gear box oil leak here are some pics of the right axle showing the outboard grease (fine) and the inboard joint and flange. You can even see where the original sealant has started to come off. Also that boot was filled with grease the other 3 clean on the inside! Also here are the bands I think the newer bands may be able to install tighter with tool, but the old style has nipples which hold the boot tight. I would like some feedback from you all on which you think would be best. Also for reference here are two differential seals one is from TR and the other FUK The FUK one has a bigger spring inside which ones would you use? Thanks to all! Rob Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
There was an article in the FCA Prancing Horse about CV joints, showing what bad ones look like... It was quite obvious that if it needed replacement it would have pitting and heat-checking where the balls would be digging and damaging their tracks in the outer housing (also the inner cage would show wear and damage, plus the inner race). For the most part, CV joints should last a long time and would only wear out due to lack of maintenance, contamination of dust/dirt due to a split boot, or rarer still, poor quality manufacturing. I've used that type of banding before, but thats more of an industrial type and you'd need a special tool for that (not anything like a typical CV joint banding tool). I think this type is overkill for a CV joint, all you'd need is the "normal" kind...
Peter, That is the new style that came with the OEM boots, I found some youtube videos of guys fixing them. Since I dont have any of the old style bands was trying to figure out what to use?. What do you think of my one spline sticking, it was in hard. the splines on both sides look good just a real press fit.. Plus I noticed a bunch of other post where the outside metal flange that holds the boot is bent, both of my inboard ones are bent up a bit not round but my outboard ones are still round???
Unless you drive with the boots torn the CV joints will likely go 200k miles. Many European cars use these exact same CV joints and they outlast the car. And those CVs never see maintenance. Yours have been lovingly re-packed twice in 50k miles! Unless you see something horrible spend your money on something else.
I bought my CV boots at NAPA and they came with all of the bands and those were just the "normal" type (that you squish the protrusion to tighten it down). If I remember correctly, thats the style that was on my car originally... Or at least what was on it before I got the car. I suspect it was original as it still had the Lobro logos on the boots. If you want, I'll try to dig up my old boots and hopefully, I kept some of the old bands to take pics of. To get a better idea of what "normal" boot clamps I'm talking about, see this NAPA item (not necessarily the one you need! Only posting as an example!): http://www.napaonline.com/Catalog/CatalogItemDetail.aspx?R=ATM171407291B_0257895115 As for the spline fit, it could just be that the machining of the parts are off by a few thou, making one spline off from another just that little bit. Take a close look at all of the splines and see if one (or more) have severe rubs marks from the dismantling. I don't think you could (or should) correct that by hand and I don't think it'll be worth the hassle and cost to have it machined properly. At least you were still able to take them off, so you know you can get them back on. Who knows, maybe try all the positions and it may line up to a nice fit.
Dear Friends, I was flirting with getting new CV joints but after Brian's post and cleaning them up I think I will be fine, the wear looks exactly what they did 10 years ago. The splines on the stubborn shaft and joint look better than all the rest. Someone suggested putting the shaft on a board and tapping that joint on with a socket onto that center cage section so as not to put undue pressure on the rest of the assembly, these seem pretty stout On problem I cannot end the cir clip/snap ring anywhere. I tried all my Ferrari sources and nill. The ones I took off seem OK but one was pretty stubborn and i would like to use new ones. I found out who makes the bands in the kit and think I will use them for a try. I am posting some pics of the various parts. I was attempting to scratch some marks on the first joint to make assembly the same as removal but found, wiping a small spot with alcohol and permanent marker allowed me to align all the joints I even put the balls back in the same spots. A few observations the inner joints have the bent flange which I hear is common, maybe from the travel of the shaft, also the outer joints seems looser on both sides with the inner being harder to put back maybe the outers se more wear? If anyone has a line on new cir clips let me know. Now I have to figure out a tool to press the differential seals in big enough to fit on the outside of the seal but also have a hole in it or deep enough so the spline won't touch.... Thanks to all for your suggestions. Peter I have been told the ones with the bumps are the original Ferrari style. Rob Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login Image Unavailable, Please Login
I had to use a press to remove both inboard ones from my 328 shafts, and also to press them back on again. They were really tight and no visible "high spots", I think its just the luck of the draw re machining tolerances.
Try some of the P-car suppliers for the circlip as the CV joint is the same as a mid 80's turbo, or measure it and check with www.mcmaster.com As for a tool for putting on the seals I went to home depot and found some PVC fittings that were close to the right dia. and picked up a longer bolt the same thread size as the flange bolt to tighten it in (I did have to play with a stack of washers to get the depth right)
VIP, I dont understand how you use the bolt. I was going to find something that was round and about the same size and try to tap it in with a rubber hammer. Also should you use any lubricant on the seal to fit it in the differential I always put my other seals in dry but like on the cam seal they are clamped in not pushed??
The longer bolt was to compensate for the depth of the PVC fitting that I used. So I got the seal started then used the PVC coupler/spacer, then the washer from the flange (to push against the spacer,)then screwed in the longer bolt (it was long enough to only go in a few turns..) Then I slowly tightened the bolt which pulled/pushed in the washer, spacer and seal... I found it too hard to fit a hammer in there or to be accurate enough with a extension and hammer, hence the low budget seal installer. Hope that Helps (I should have taken a photo...sorry) It is kinda like the one used here to put in the front crank seal http://www.ferrarichat.com/forum/showpost.php?p=136540019&postcount=2
